Tolywn-Tyrant or Patriot?

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Hitler having good ideas? He may have had some, but it sickens me that people write him off yet do not see the evil of other leaders, some of whom have also been masters of the so-called 'Free World'.

Stalin for example ended up having more people killed than Hitler. However, its always Hitler Hitler Hitler. What about Mao? What about Presidents Kennedy and Johnson causing
Vietnam to escalate. Millions died there.

How about the wars of aggression faught by the various leaders of colonial powers. I'd say a lot more people died through these leaders rather than those that died under Hitler.

I give you a challenge here to think critically. Yes, Hitler was a tyrant, but no more than many other leaders. At the risk of being banned, I must state this. Has it ever occurred to you that the reason why Hitler is so vilified yet the others are not given a mention is because the Allies (the US and the UK), especially those who where relatives of those killed in death camps, ie the Jewish people in America, write history according to what suits them? This case is no different! (Now I await to be called racist because I just gave my personal observation...I suppose it will not appease the crowds that my great great grandfather was Jewish...)

There is ALWAYS another side to the story. Don't always go with the side that the media gives you. Chances are, thats what they want you to hear, and how they would like you to think!

There is no excuse for what Hitler, like Tolwyn did. However, to deny other events is a crime in itself...as it prevents people from learning from history, instead of repeating it.
 
Oh and by the way, one of the best ways to get out of a recession is to spend more. Therefore, the Government of ConFed should have been spending more on new carriers, not less!

To spend less would involve less wealth going around! This is a spiral downwards into recession and depression. An example of this was the Great Depression. The only way the world finally got out of depression was the occurance of a US entry into the war. This boosted industry and thus more wealth could be generated.

After all, war is ALWAYS good for business.
 
I'm not going to go into the question of execution because I too have mixed feelings about whether execution is ever warranted. Nonetheless, Tolwyn got the highest punishment Confed could mete out, and that seems fair enough.

I still don't understand why people wish to believe that Tolwyn wasn't developing bioweapons for use on humans. If he wanted to use them only against aliens, then they would have been tested against aliens, not against humans.
As for the Temblor Bomb, it was a desperate measure in a desperate situation. Confed certainly is not proud of that action.

And redwolf, there is certainly a lot of truth in what you say, but the way you said it does not exactly invite a peaceful debate...
 
Hitler is just more comparable, do to the whole concept of the "superior race" thing.
Stalin killed more people but it was basicly as a testament to his power, as apposed to creating the superior race. If we argue using Stalin, it would just be dismissed. Granted the people who mention Darwin seem to conveniently omit overproduction.

ex:
person1:Tolwyn killed more people then Stalin, it was completly unjust.

person2: Stalin was power-hungry, Tolwyn only killed those people to better the race as a whole, haven't you ever heard of Darwin!!

end of example.

Quite true there is always another side of the story. Tolywn is essentially Hitler, and just look at how much Tolwyn has been defended. Any argument they used for Tolwyn could just as easily been used for Hitler. There are many excuses, there just aren't any justifications. Granted some would disagree.
 
I agree with redwolf. Hitler is considered so evil because the Allies won and it is the ALlies who wrote history. Now i m not saying that i agree what he did with the Jews, but just like redwolf said you should always look at both parts of the story. Imagine if Germany won, Hitler would be revered as a god and America and the ALlies would be considered as the Devils. Imagine if Britain had won the revolutionary war, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin, George Washington, and Thomas Jefersson would be considered traitors and scum. If you look at the Britian's point of view we were just rebels trying to upset the peaceful colonial process. ANd if you read outside of the history books you would find out that the Americans were much more violent than the British.

The moral of the story is that history always favors the victors.
 
Yet many people, not all, base their opinions upon what history and the media tells them. And like i said historya and the media always favor the victors.
 
the media is crap it is all about money,but i agree with you the history is written by the victors, but like i said evil is evil
 
Tolwyn saved the entire confederation, the campaign leading up to the Bot and the Bot itself. That means he saved many trillion's of peoples lives, so his sentence should have been commuted to life in prison rather than death, and if it was to be by death then he should not have hanged himself, hanging is NOT for honorable military leaders, the fireing squad he was supposed to get was, that shows that the confederation leaders still considered him honorable.
 
the gen-select device and all the bioweapons and other thing of the black lance aren´t is not of a honorable military leader , he was mad and hungry for power
 
Tolwyn became so obsessed with protecting humanity that he forgot the human in humanity.

Its like in all those cold war movies where a rogue American general tries to nuke the Russians "To preserve the American way" from being corrupted by Communist ways, but thats because neither would exist anymore so the US cant be corrupted if it isnt around to be changed. In their minds it makes sense but to anyone with an objective point of view its horribly wrong.
 
Yes but what I am saying is that Tolwyn might not have intended the Genselect for use against humans, that may have just been a test (a horrid test) and for firing squads you are wrong. From the roman era, first having a sword in ones neck, then in medevial a clean decapitation, then after the invention of the flintlock musket execution by firing squad has been resereved for the Nobility and the honorable soldier who has been captured or was a traitor, but his past actions like stopping a war that almost destroyed humanity (for either Tolwyn or Blair) would give a fallen hero the right to an honorable death.
 
I dont see what your trying to say. For some reason I dont think Tolwyn was going to be executed but was going to spend his life in prison. Blair was executed in the losing scenes because he was a traitor, and the method they chose to do it was a firing squad. I think theres a state that uses it as its method of corporal punishment. It wasnt because he was a fallen hero. And even if Tolwyn was going to be executed, he killed himself because he realised what he had done and couldnt live with himself.
 
More like he belived what he has done, despite killing the civies, was ultimatly right, and he belived that by acting to quickly and making mistakes he might have sealed the fate of humanity.
 
I think i remember reading that. I guess that throws out the idea of him having redeemed himself. But it also proves that whatever his end results, he was a patriot because he thought he was doing what was best.
 
Well he THOUGHT he was a patriot. I wouldnt for one second consider him one. Yep, madman. Thats what he was.
 
Lets put you in the middle of the Kilrathi war when you see all of your freinds being blown away and them come back and tell me that Tolwyn wasn't a patriot or that we was mad.
 
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