Obsolete ships
- Thread starter Ladiesman^
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I merely said that I rarely ran into fuel problems so we must have different flying styles. It was a comment, not a critisism. I tend to use the burners in short bursts, to avoid incoming shots, or to close on some unsuspecting bastards tail before unloading a full tachyon salvo. It's the way I fly and it works for me. You can have your own style if you want.
Originally posted by RFBurns
As far as the distance thing, anytime you have to stop for anything during war hampers your chances of winning that war. If a wing of fighters have to refuel so often, I mean, what if the enemy doesnt give you a chance to break away and go catch up to that refuel tanker? Maybe you could ask them to stop for a few minutes while you go refuel.
I was just pointing out that, in real combat, it's usually over pretty quickly, one way or the other. You will either be dead or the victor long before you run out of fuel. The chances of a pilot taking down 5, let alone 15-20 enemy is very slim indeed. And if it's just you and someone else duking it out for 15 minutes, then he should be having the same fuel problems that you are.
Maybe if you are some mega-ace then, after your 100th kill, you could turn around to high command and say "hey! I'm pretty damn good, give me a better ship", but for your Average Joe pilot who has a 50-50 chance of dying every time he goes into battle and a 1-1000 chance of running out of fuel before he does so, the cost of fitting every ship with expensive m/am engines rules this out.
I'm not saying that having unlimited afterburners is undesireable, just that it is economically impractical.
Just one other point : I seem to recall that the burners on the Dragon, like those on the Centurian and other Privateer ships, consume energy (which recharges, giving them unlimited life). Thus if your style involves long, continued afterburner runs, then could find yourself running out of afterburner energy when you most need it, or short of power to run your guns and shields. If your style involves short bursts of the afterburner, then you shouldn't be running out of burner fuel anyway.
Originally posted by AzraeL
Those did drain energy so you end up with less for guns and shield recharge, but it regenerates rather quickly. Perhaps when an enemy which has this type of fighter craft comes to invade Confed, the regenerative power plant wont be so expensive afterall.
Besides the Wasp, which has that antiqated Solid fuel rocket booster, and the Dragon and Privateer ships, when you have to fly 60,000 clicks to the hot zone, short bursts of afterburner is all you might have left! I get your point tho.I just think that if in the WC III days they had ships in the private sector with regenerative power plants, just seems kinda like putting the cart before the horse with newer ships without that type of power plant, but I guess even the great Confederation needs to save a buck or two! Err, credits I mean! Confed can marshall incredible resources [Blair, WCIV] and a governing body that large would make resources abundant when in need. I vote for the matter/anti-matter power plant. And if there ever is a new WC game with ships of this type, you can bet the enemy is going to muster everything they have to throw at Confed. Confed would need to clear the cobwebs from those Dragons and call up the blueprints on that power plant and start mass producing, which would decrease the cost per fighter.
Build a few, costs alot, build thousands, cost comes down.
BTW, has anyone ever seen a Confed credit coin? Do they even use coins, cept WCIV where Blair gives a fellow war pilot a few coins for dinner. I didnt even notice if they were coins, just sounded like coins tho. And does a typical Confed fighter cost 1,000,000.00? That is a tough one to swallow. If the Centurion has regenerative power but only costs 200,000.00, Id say Confed getting riped off!
RFBurns
"The Boarder Worlds take no prisoners!" [Seether,WCIV]
Except that the public doesn't like it.
The civies wouldn't stand for the navy spending their precious tax money on new "toys".
Yeah, just like building couple thousand capships will decrease their cost.
Coins were mentioned in Action Stations, though the things Blair give the vet were credit notes.
The Centurion doesn't come with a power plant that regenerates the energy, you have to buy one. That's why Confed ships are much more expensive, they already come with all the equipement that as a freelancer you have to buy yourself.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Nay, a typical Confed fighter does not cost 1,000,000.00. It costs 100,000,000.00.
Finally, would somebody please note that the Priv power plants are not M/AM? They're much, much, much, much inferior. They draw power away from shields, and engines (and guns? I can't remember for certain). The comm system also uses the energy from the plant, as does the repair system. Sometimes, when you're flying on full afterburners long enough to bleed the capacitator dry (which would happen a lot in combat), a single comm message is sufficient for the shields to automatically switch to a lower level (I don't know if anybody else has experienced this, but I certainly have). Do you really want to use a power plant so crummy that it turns the enemy's taunts into weapons?
The 100,000,000 credit price tag is actually pretty much what a US fighter costs (not a very good one at that) since the B2 bomber cost 2 Billion dollars, we can assume that then that figure is actually pretty acurate, but same as with that, one can by a cessna for 30,000-70,000 ( a cheap one) and Lear jets cost 10 mil so prices vary between Civy and Military ships in the "real" world (If one takes the multiple universe/infinite possiblities theory seriously, which I do, all possible universes exist, thus there is a WC unvierse, actually there are probably several, one for each of the possible variations and one that accepts 1 part of an inconsistancy rather than another) just as much as in WC
well, inflationwise it appears to have roughly the same buying factor if you use the top-of-the-line military equipment as a focal point, and if you assume that the venerable military tradition of the "$200 hammer" is still around.
Otherwise, we have no clue unless McDonalds is still around to compare BigMac prices with.
Otherwise, we have no clue unless McDonalds is still around to compare BigMac prices with.
Ladiesman^
Spaceman
While not trying to totally tear you apart there, that sounds to me like a REALLY lame excuse to get out of anything. While I can't prove or disprove that (nor would I try), that's something that really shouldn't be brought up in discussion. If you start flailing that around, I can say "Well, Capt Eisen was the captian of the USS Enterprise-T. You can't prove me wrong because it might be a different universe!"
It doesn't work. I know that was extreme, but still, the fact the infinite universe thing comes up is rediculous. It's just a real easy way to say your right, without having to BE right.
That is a theory that has a basis in the science of Quantum Mechanics. That science says that since we can never know where in the electron cloud a specific electron is, then that electron could be in any one of an infinite number of points and thus for each possible point, there is a new universe created and with 13 billion years of a nearly infinite number of electrons chosing between an infinite number of points, there are an infinite number of universes each which is slightly different than the next and thus different things happen, time goes at different speeds, and different possiblities happen. This comes from my knowledge of the science but I am not an expert.
Okay since my last post this is what i have to say
Priv set during WC3 EW
priv features the Gothri, a disctinctively WC2 fighter. if priv is set during wc3 it is early wc3 but the apparent instantaneous change from wc2 to 3 is non-existent there is a gap of at least a year, probably longer, judging from the ship improvements
i have proof somewhere but my WC archive is a cd big not including games so it will take time to find
I challenge you to prove, with WC page references that Priv is set during WC3 and then to explain the incredible differences between the ships
even form WC1 to 3 that time is not enough for 300% inflation so there must be other factors, confee equipment etc
THe dragon ooh how i chortled upon reading your witty remarks aka the cloak, i am not an idiot, cloaking is obviously out of the question but two dragons could be hiddedn on a small asteroid or even in a big garage but a carrier and a destroyer, "yes detective thats my new campervan, no its not a 2 km (that distance is guessed and probably wrong) carrier
The Lance are still around (read the aces timeline quote"Despite the possibility that some small pockets of the program may remain hidden away, the Black Lance and their influence are effectively removed as a current and future threat") effectively and despite are important words in this there is no guarnatee of a complete extermination, look at nazis still around
THe bigger the ship Vesuvius vs midway the more turrets, logic dictates that so the Un-listed number is irrelevantsize dictates more turrets
as regards the "fleet control ship" midway that needs no escort, my point is that it is a pretty small fleet made of one ship
An excalibur upgrade is not needed, as it suits its job, so does the vampire, but 1 ship that can do all these things atmospheric (see wc4 ending) bombing, intercept, fighter supremacy better is cheaper than 7/8 ships that do the same
we all know that cloaks are as good as extinct but the dragon is fast, rock hard and has long range whether that is needed, it is better to be prepared,
[Edited by madman on 01-31-2001 at 17:57]
Priv set during WC3 EW
priv features the Gothri, a disctinctively WC2 fighter. if priv is set during wc3 it is early wc3 but the apparent instantaneous change from wc2 to 3 is non-existent there is a gap of at least a year, probably longer, judging from the ship improvements
i have proof somewhere but my WC archive is a cd big not including games so it will take time to find
I challenge you to prove, with WC page references that Priv is set during WC3 and then to explain the incredible differences between the ships
even form WC1 to 3 that time is not enough for 300% inflation so there must be other factors, confee equipment etc
THe dragon ooh how i chortled upon reading your witty remarks aka the cloak, i am not an idiot, cloaking is obviously out of the question but two dragons could be hiddedn on a small asteroid or even in a big garage but a carrier and a destroyer, "yes detective thats my new campervan, no its not a 2 km (that distance is guessed and probably wrong) carrier
The Lance are still around (read the aces timeline quote"Despite the possibility that some small pockets of the program may remain hidden away, the Black Lance and their influence are effectively removed as a current and future threat") effectively and despite are important words in this there is no guarnatee of a complete extermination, look at nazis still around
THe bigger the ship Vesuvius vs midway the more turrets, logic dictates that so the Un-listed number is irrelevantsize dictates more turrets
as regards the "fleet control ship" midway that needs no escort, my point is that it is a pretty small fleet made of one ship
An excalibur upgrade is not needed, as it suits its job, so does the vampire, but 1 ship that can do all these things atmospheric (see wc4 ending) bombing, intercept, fighter supremacy better is cheaper than 7/8 ships that do the same
we all know that cloaks are as good as extinct but the dragon is fast, rock hard and has long range whether that is needed, it is better to be prepared,
[Edited by madman on 01-31-2001 at 17:57]
Privateer takes place in 2669 while WCIII does as well, but WCII takes place in 2667 or so. The difference in ships can be explained via the imfamous just becuase we don't see it doesn't mean its not there. So the ships in Priv. exist they just don't exist where WCIII is taking place, perhaps the Kilrathi consider the gemini sector a minor backwater area and not worthy of new/better ships.
I belive that the Gemini sector did have some heavy battles in the start of the war, but since it would be easier to the Kilrathi to reach Earth and the inner colonies from Engima or Vega sectors (besides there not any kilrathi colonies in the Gemini sector and any direct jump nodes to kilrah from there) so Gemini became a sector without great tatical advantage in the War.
Any kilrathi attack had to pass by Perry and Perry Naval Base could sustain the invasion for some time until ConFed renforcements could arrive.
Any kilrathi attack had to pass by Perry and Perry Naval Base could sustain the invasion for some time until ConFed renforcements could arrive.
The Gothri is first seen in WC2, it's not a "WC2 fighter". But you must obviously think that SO takes place during the WC4 time, since it has Excals and Vesuvius class ships...
The place in which Priv takes place is hardly of any worth to the Kilrathi, therefore they never place any larger forces in there, which in turn doesn't require Confed to send in modern stuff like T-bolts, but instead use Broadswords, or Stilletos.
Sure you do...
You chalenge me? There are no radical changes, and if you want to challegne someone, than challenge the whole damn board. Ask the regulars here, and they'll tell you when Privateer takes place.
Wow, that made absolutely no sense....
The Aces timeline, is hardly the most acurate thing out there...
The Project personel may still be around, but they're not around as an organization... and yeah, nazis are still around, not that some fanatical skinheads could possibly threaten the world...
Except that the Vesuvius class ISN'T larger than the Midway class.
Eh, no it's not.
Yeah, which is protecting systems that don't usually need protection...
It's still not a reason to have more than 1/2 Lances on a carrier... The Project needed a ship with a range like that, Confed won't unless it's some special case, and they would usually have time to prepare for something like that. Besides, why have Lances when you can have much cheaper Excals? Excals also carry matter/antimatter plants, and their range is at least almost as good as the Lances.....