Obsolete ships

papachulo10

Spaceman
WHy are they useless. On the bug ships or on kilrathi or human ships. I mean if Confed got into a domestic war i think the flash packs would be kinda useful to instill fear. But hey thats a maybe. Ranger...Ohhh. I still like them (or Cerebus or something smaller than the Midway) and i would feel safer to have a few with the midway to conduct long range scout missions and establish a "beachead" and have the midway come up with more ships to support the smaller carrier. I wouldn't put my Midway headfirst into a hotzone.
 

Earthworm

Spaceman
Originally posted by papachulo10
WHy are they useless. On the bug ships or on kilrathi or human ships. I mean if Confed got into a domestic war i think the flash packs would be kinda useful to instill fear.
Think about it. At the WC4 time Confed has a ship (the Vesuvius) that can't be destroyed by a flash pack unless it's fired inside a ship. You'd think that almost ten years later the Midway and other new ships should be capable of stoping the FP just like the Vesuvius class.

I wouldn't put my Midway headfirst into a hotzone.
That's great, because Midway is desinged to sit at the center of a battle group, and not charging into the fight.:) But hey, you don't need smaller carriers. You can very well send long range fighters, or lighter capships like destroyers, corvettes or frigates, for scouting instead of lighter carriers. Or you could even send small ships like the Seahawks from Prophecy. They're small, reasnobly fast, and stealthy, and the Midway used them few times for scouting.

[Edited by Earthworm on 01-27-2001 at 21:58]
 

Dragon

Spaceman
Well since I am wasting my latin here....
Did you play Privatter? all ships that you could fly there were quite big and bigger that the Dragon is.
And since you could not prove your "teories" as well (sorry, you think that what I say is unrealistic, that is your belives on that, I have mine on it and its not likey that I change my mind because you dont belive me) so I remain true to my ideas.
I dont think that I sould support all ideas that I dont agree with, just because someone says that "there were..." and dont give any prove on that matter.
I never try to prove anything in that, I always said that its possible and keep a open mind, just because in a novel that say that at the time of the end there were... and dont go say anything after that and we are forced to take conclusions on incompleate data (that is what it is) does not make it a real fact. until a novel or game (in there or in the manual) say what happen after, we cannot tell it that is a fact.
 

Napoleon

Spaceman
Dragon: You are wrong. The Dragon had a price tag the size of a Frigate (i think they told us that in the book). While I am a dragon lover and don't really like the Vampire (the dragon is more my style, kick ass fission cannons and better shields than the vamp). but the point is that if confed was to sell the Dragon, they might as well start selling dreadnoughts to the Kilrathi and hope that nothing happens. It would be a ridiclusly stupid move that even confed wouldn't make. Also, I agree with papachulo10 that I would like to have a few light/scout carriers like the Hades or an upgraded ranger to cover the flanks of a fleet. With a large fleet a mega carrier works well in the center of the fleet but I would want a light/scout/escourt carrier on my flanks in the next system to make sure the enemys aren't going to jump me from behind or the sides and while a Seahawk would work, having a carrier their could hold off an enemy force with its fighters in time to get back up. Dragon, Privateer is not Prophesy and at the time of Privateer confed was desparate for pilots so they might have been willing to sell fighters to privateers if the privateers would fight the kilrathi at some point. And threories by very nature are not proven but some theories have more credence than others and EW's makes a helluvalot more sence than yours. Also when did you use latin dragon?
As has been said many times the Dragon is the second best fighter in Confed and while very few were built why would confed give it up.


Just a thought but I know how Cloakers are irrellevant at the time of P/SO but tech improves so somebody might come up with an improved version (why im saying this don't ask).
 

Earthworm

Spaceman
Originally posted by Dragon
all ships that you could fly there were quite big and bigger that the Dragon is.
I'm not saying that the Lance is larger than those ships, but it could definetly be in range of some of them. The Tarsus definetly doesn't look too big, and we're never told the size of those ships. Meanwhile, the Lance is 40 meters long, and it's very wide.
And since you could not prove your "teories" as well
That's because there's nothing to prove...



just because in a novel that say that at the time of the end there were... and dont go say anything after that and we are forced to take conclusions on incompleate data does not make it a real fact.
OK, again.... The novels said there were 40 Lances built...
we're told that that ten of them are captured (and some of those destroyed later on), and ten of them are destroyed in Speradon...
We're told that there are twenty Lances left, and IIRC all of them were transfered to the Vesuvius...
We know that the Vesuvius is destroyed and therfore so are any fighters that are still inside, and any fighters near it that didn't surrender.
The conclusion, there's precious few Lances left, if any.

Now, the public wouldn't like Confed using the Lances, so the government wouldn't let them build more of them. The government wouldn't also aprove of Confed mas producing such an expensive fighter.

No, these aren't hard facts, but it's close enough. You can't say: "there's a ten year difference, a lot of things could happen and we just didn't hear about them" because then you couldn't say anything about the universe.

[Edited by Earthworm on 01-27-2001 at 22:37]
 

Dragon

Spaceman
I said that about the price tag of the Dragon, but privatters have acess to powerful ships as well, if one makes a ship with the old centurion power in the time of WC P you would get a ship very much like a dragon, and I have taked off the cloak device.
And the price tag would be a little smaller since you dont get to have the fission, plasma and tachtion guns like when you buy a new ship in Privatter.
And I the centurion cost quite some money there is no reason that a really strip down Dragon (or something like it) with anything on it could not be sold in market.
And there are still privatters around, they are the free mans of space, confed does not like privatters but the Border worlds union have quite a lot, besides the gemini sector that is full of privatters.
and its not likely that they would sell more that 10 strip down dragons a year(if that many, since the price tag would be still quite high), that would be special orders only. with ConFed aproved.
Some ships in the original privatter were military ships before modifications to civilian use.
 

Earthworm

Spaceman
Originally posted by Dragon
I said that about the price tag of the Dragon, but privatters have acess to powerful ships as well, if one makes a ship with the old centurion power in the time of WC P you would get a ship very much like a dragon, and I have taked off the cloak device.
Now you're doing what you pointed out from me, you're guesing. Why should something like a Centurion be that good? Yeah, it was a great fighter in Privateer, but it was a public fighter. Confed obviously has some much better fighters in its fleet. Additinoaly, like I already said, the Centurion is a public craft, while the Lance is a military fighter, that's definetly not being sold. Just like Napoleon comparing the selling of a Lance to selling of a dreadnought, a privateer could not afford a Lance.



And the price tag would be a little smaller since you dont get to have the fission, plasma and tachtion guns like when you buy a new ship in Privatter.
Even if the ship wouldn't be as expensive, you still wouldn't be able to afford it.
And I the centurion cost quite some money there is no reason that a really strip down Dragon (or something like it) with anything on it could not be sold in market.
The military ships Confed uses at the Privateer time are more expensive than a commercially available fighters, the same thing would go for the WC4 or Prophecy time.
and its not likely that they would sell more that 10 strip down dragons a year(if that many, since the price tag would be still quite high), that would be special orders only. with ConFed aproved.
Uh hu, hey get me Confed government on line two... "yes, hi, I'm a privateer and I'd like to get me a Lance class fighter. Even though I can't possibly afford it, and it would be possible that I could use them against inocent civilians"

Basicly you're sugesting that Confed starts building Lances just to sell them to privateers.
Some ships in the original privatter were military ships before modifications to civilian use.
Which ones?
 

Napoleon

Spaceman
I believe the gladius was used in the military then available for civ. use, but hell I dont even have privateer that is just something I have gotten out of websites like the cic :)
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Dragon, you're not making any sense. Why would the United States sell any F-22s to a criminal?

Furthermore, none of the civilian ships in Privateer had ever been military fighters. The Tarsus had been a scout, while the Orion, Centurion and Galaxy were designed specifically for civvies. The Gladius was used only by InSystem Security (aka the Militia), which would appear to be a semi-independent branch of the Confed Navy. The Talon is indeed used by civilians, but it is not available through standard channels (that is to say, it must be bought on the black market), and it's hardly a modern fighter anyway.

Finally, WC1 gives us the pricetag of a standard Confed fighter - over 100,000,000 credits. That doesn't quite compare to a Centurion's 300,000.
 

papachulo10

Spaceman
In WCP the Seahawks were vulnerable to enemy fire and needed fighter support. Plus i think they are too big to be used as scout ships and way too weak to establish a "beachead" in hostile space. I understand that the flashpacks are useless against the newer confed ships but how about the Kilrath raider's ships or human raider ships i think that it would be smart to have a few up your sleaves so confed doesn't have to commit a large force to take out some raiders. What do you think?
 

Earthworm

Spaceman
Originally posted by papachulo10
Plus i think they are too big to be used as scout ships
Than I wonder why the Midway used them for scouting missions, including the cutscene in the brifing room where we get to see the destroyed Kilrathi fleet.
 

papachulo10

Spaceman
The Midway was in a Pinch. they just contacted a new hostile race. I think they had to improvise. But the Seahawk is kinda the equivilant to a Hawkeye,(the AWACS plane used by the NAVY). I would rather have a fighter with some Recon pods. Like the TARPS pods that the F-14 uses for recon.
 

Supdon3

Kal-El
I would think that any Dragons that survived WCIV if still in ConFed service would be used for special missions, things that are top secret and need the best fighters and pilots to accomplish. Situations that arent handled by fighters off of a carrier.
 

Supdon3

Kal-El
Were there multiple endings for WCIV? The one i saw was where Blair had been promoted and Hawk was working for him and said something about an uprising.
 

Napoleon

Spaceman
If you choose to go to circie and don't use the FP on ella there is an ending where Blair is an instructer and the Intrepid appears to be a training ship, this is considered the "right" ending. In the other one, Dragons and the BL are still being used and blair has become a Tolwyn like figure.
 

Dragon

Spaceman
that is the one.

The other is training rookies with panter on the BWS interpid.

I like panter better.

And you can say something stupid in the end and tolwyn get the votes to go to war and you get a firing squad.
 
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