Obsolete ships

[Ladiesman^]

Hey. I've been hearing so much about how ships from WC3 are obsolete by the time of WCP. I don't understand why though. It's what, like like 10 years give or take? Why in all of gods name would they be obsolete? I mean hell, the US Navy still uses aircraft carriers and stuff from WWII! Wasn't the Enterprise built during WWII? That's still the biggest and best of all the Aircraft carriers. 10 years is nothing. While there may be better things built during that time, why would they just junk the old stuff? Of course things like the Ranger would be at least be being phased out. I was kinda upset we didn't see any of those ships at least from WCIV in WCP. I got it hoping to see a nice mix of old and new ships. It's alright, but I just wanted to know why people are so insistant that stuff from that time is gone by then.

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Ladiesman^
Hey. I've been hearing so much about how ships from WC3 are obsolete by the time of WCP. I don't understand why though. It's what, like like 10 years give or take?

It's around 12 years between the two. Notice though, that most of the fighters in WC3 are old. The only new ships are Excals, which are brand new, and T-bolts which may be few years old at best.

And capships... The Ranger class is extremly old, and so are the destroyers and cruisers. Simply look at the stats of a Tallahasse class cruiser and compate them to the alien cruiser. The Tallahasse would get slaughtered.

Why in all of gods name would they be obsolete? I mean hell, the US Navy still uses aircraft carriers and stuff from WWII!

Ships like carriers are usually desinged to last for a long time. In real life and WC.

 

[Napoleon]

The enterprise was built in the mid fifties, there was a wwII Exeter class Air Craft carrier names the Enterprise but they were different ships.

 

[Dragon]

The US Navy does not have any WW II carriers, some did fight in the corean war and very few in the vietman.
the Enterprise of WW II had a wooden deck, the new one have a nuclear reactor.
And Earthworm you right those ships would not last long against the bugs.

 

[Ladiesman^]

Oh, well ok. I gotta imagine that the Vesuvius and Concordia classes are still used. I know that most the vesuvii (?) are gone because of budget cuts. But even if the fighters are old in WCIV, they would still be AROUND in WCP. Not neccesarily on the midway, but they are still used right?

I even heard somwhere that the Dragon was obsolete by WCP. I find that hard to believe becuase they still had Excaliburs at T-Bolts around in WCPSO. Of course, the Dragon's were BL, but you gotta figure Confed uses at least a few of them. They are still techincally their ships.

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Ladiesman^
Oh, well ok. I gotta imagine that the Vesuvius and Concordia classes are still used.

I would imagine Concordia's are still used, but they wouldn't be considered heavy carriers anymore. They are also very old though.

I know that most the vesuvii (?) are gone because of budget cuts.

Or because they were destroyed.

But even if the fighters are old in WCIV, they would still be AROUND in WCP. Not neccesarily on the midway, but they are still used right?

Yeah, there are fo course the T-bolts and Excals in SO. We do know that Confed retired the Longbow though.

I find that hard to believe becuase they still had Excaliburs at T-Bolts around in WCPSO.

It's not obsolote, but fighters like Vampires are better. Not to mention that Lances (Dragons) are much more expensive.

Of course, the Dragon's were BL, but you gotta figure Confed uses at least a few of them. They are still techincally their ships.

But think about what Confed public would think when their military started using ships that were originally used to bring genocied to Telamon. Besides, there were only 40 Lances build, and most were destroyed.

 

[Dragon]

Earthworm I like to point out that we never know what happen to the Dragon Heavy Fighter, there could be a couple of squadrons of they or they could be now being build to be sold to Privatters (a good all around ship, perfect to Privatters, Cloak and flash packs not incluied).
More of Vesuvius class could had being build or not, its a matter still being debated here.
And I never see the Concordia Class Carrier as a Heavy Carrier, a normal one yes, a heavy one, no.
The Excaliburs and T-Bolts are now in the end of their service live to ConFed, they are now second line Fighters, good only to keep the peace, not to fight wars.

 

[Napoleon]

I don't know that the Excals are obsolete, I mean when we see them and the T-Bolts, they hold their own. Another thing the function of the T-bolt/Dragon/Vindicator as fighter bomber, no longer really exists in P, the Shrike isn't manuverable enough for the role as a fighter. Yet that is a useful role, in that that kind of fighter-bomber can fight its way through enemy fighters and deliver torps to for instance a transport or destroyer.

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Dragon
Earthworm I like to point out that we never know what happen to the Dragon Heavy Fighter,

Actually, we do. Forty of them were built, with ten of them being captured by the BW, ten others destroyed in Speradon, and the other twenty on the Vesuvius or in Axius. Needless to say, with the destruction of the Vesuvius, all of the Lances that were still on board were destroyed and any that were in space would most likelly stayed and died there. Not only that, three or four of the BW Lances were destroyed.

there could be a couple of squadrons of they or they could be now being build to be sold to Privatters

That's crazy. Selling ships that are still better than most fighters, to Privatters, possibly pirates, would be crazy. Besides, I doubt the Lance would have much cargo space.

And I never see the Concordia Class Carrier as a Heavy Carrier, a normal one yes, a heavy one, no.

Eh? Technicly, heavy carriers ARE normal carriers (except that there's no such thing as a normal carrier). You have your light carrier (ie the Tarawa, and others like her, the Ranger class) and you have your heavy carriers (Concordia, Bengal class, etc).

I don't know that the Excals are obsolete, I mean when we see them and the T-Bolts, they hold their own.

Not really, they have good shielding, but moderate weapons, and their armor is paper thin compared to the newer fighters.

Yet that is a useful role, in that that kind of fighter-bomber can fight its way through enemy fighters and deliver torps to for instance a transport or destroyer.

Yeah, but the T-bolt (and I would imagine, the Vindicator) can only hold precioius few torps. And only light ones.


[Edited by Earthworm on 01-27-2001 at 19:40]

 

[Knight]

A little late, aren't we?

Originally posted by Dragon
More of Vesuvius class could had being build or not, its a matter still being debated here.

Actually the debate ended along time ago. Earthworm's right, or at least close enough. We've discussed just about everything you could possibly imagine (with a few exceptions), so be careful what you bring up, 'cause some people are touchier than others about topics in which they were proved wrong.

 

[Dragon]

I dont belive that the Dragon could not being sold to Privatters, the war have ended 10 years ago and the Dragon, despite being a powerful fighter can be sold without extras (the cloak device) after all what is wrong with that Idea?, the Deamon in privatter is more capable as the Stilleto fighter and they are being sold in the open market.
And we dont, the mumbers are from the WC IV novel, there is no way that we can know what happen within the time frame of WC IV / WC P, we can only especulate, nothing more. There is nothing about the dragon in either the WC P or SO and since there is no data about the fate of the Dragon (what happen to the factory and the designs? were they lost in space as well?) especulation is as far as we can get, unless Origin tell us about the Dragon Fighter fate.
About those T-bolts, well the bugs used mantas as a heavy fighter and that work very well(they fool us in the start since we are not expecting those ships with torps and plasma guns, and yes they are Red but they still can fool us until we find out about that), confed have gone to the Fighter especialized type, never like to use the shrike, its overrated to me.
note. I did not gone over the Galaxy, that with the right stuff could be use as a Corvette our at least as a gunboat.
And dont start Knight, we all have the right to our belives on that matter, just because you and other have gone over that it, is still something that shows up from time to time in here, Its a very loved ship and that question was never fully explained. We have to wait until origin shed some light on that subject.
There are 10 years to be work with, just because there is something over in the SO does not mean that is sacred, Origin can still pull a fast one in all of us in that subject.

[Edited by Dragon on 01-27-2001 at 20:27]

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Dragon
I dont belive that the Dragon could not being sold to Privatters, the war have ended 10 years ago and the Dragon, despite being a powerful fighter can be sold without extras (the cloak device) after all what is wrong with that Idea?, the Deamon in privatter is more capable as the Stilleto fighter and they are being sold in the open market.

But the Deamon is hardly the best fighter around... The Dragon is still beter than ships like Panthers, and are extremly expensive. A privateer shouldn't be able to even afford one.

And we dont, the mumbers are from the WC IV novel, there is no way that we can know what happen within the time frame of WC IV / WC P, we can only especulate, nothing more. There is nothing about the dragon in either the WC P or SO and since there is no data about the fate of the Dragon (what happen to the factory and the designs? were they lost in space as well?) especulation is as far as we can get, unless Origin tell us about the Dragon Fighter fate.

WTF? We know that 40 Lances are built. We know that most of them are destroyed. Which part of that is confusing?

The Lances have most likelly been built in Axius, and that base was most likelly destroyed or captured quickly, and Confed wouldn't have a single reason to sell the Lances that remained, or to build more.

 

[Quarto]

Basically, it goes like this, Dragon. The blueprints et cetera are probably sitting in a locked safe somewhere, and nobody's going to touch them. The Dragon was simply too expensive to be worthy of mass production. Confed doesn't want it, and Confed is the only one who can afford it.

As for the existing Dragons. Three or four Dragons could have probably escaped from Axius before it was destroyed/captured by Confed forces. However, even if they did indeed escape, these ships would only have three or four months worth of flight time in them. Once this time was up, they would become useless piles of scrap metal, because there's no one out there with the equipment and resources needed to maintain a Dragon in flying order.

Ergo, the Dragon never existed .

 

[Earthworm]

He he, nice use of a movie quote.

I would however assume than any Lances that remained, weather near the Vesuvius or Axius, would rather die than escape. There wasn't really any place to run, so with their superiority et all, I'd think the Seether-clones would rather kill as many "inferior humans" as possible.

 

[Dragon]

and neither is the Dragon anymore (I have try to say that the Dragon was still the best fighter and a vampire lover come after me like he is a kilrahti ace and I am blair) I have use two ships on the same game (privatter) to prove a point, there are better figthers in privatter but that was only a to put a new ConFed (dont tell me that is not, tell that to the manual) light fighter against a older light fighter that is use by mercenarys.
Still remenber the Galaxy and its price tag? and dont start "we know that there are only..." no, we dont, like I said there are 10 years of story in blank, neither I our you can know what happen during that time, since that never comes up. its like your "The Lances have most likelly been built in Axius, and that base was most likelly destroyed or captured quickly, and Confed wouldn't have a single reason to sell the Lances that remained, or to build more." again we cant tell for sure, we dont know what happened after WC IV, its just speculation, I can not tell what happened and you also can not tell what happened. That is for a book or a new game to tell, not us, unless we wright the book or convice EA to make a new game with that in there.
I put the Dragon because it look to be a ship ideal for privatter mission, can jump, have a anti-matter reactor (like the Galaxy) and its a great all around ship, like the old Centurion ship, but a lot more small, a la P2.

 

[papachulo10]

Confed is not stupid. The dragon technology was probbably adopted in the new generation of fighters. Where are the flash packs. It does not matter if they were used in genocide they could be invaluable to Confed. One pack destroying one of Confed's flagships is a force to be reckoned with even if it was made for an evil cause. Hey nerve gas was made by the Nazi's but both superpowers stockpiled it. They never used it but the mere fact that they had it signifies something. ANd i know you guys are going to kill me but what would you say if i said that confed needs a new type of carrier. I mean i love the midway but i miss the grand old days of the Victory style ships(not sure of the class name please tell me). That must be my memories talking but a few of them with a midway could give a battle group an additional punch in case mamma bird got killed.

 

[Dragon]

join the party papachulo10, I try to tell some time ago (read my post) that the dragon was still a kick ass Fighter but there was a Vampire lover that was always putting defects on my beloved Dragon, now its not even bad to be sold in the open market.
So I cant fly in it by confed side or buy one as a privatter.

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Dragon
(I have try to say that the Dragon was still the best fighter

You're right, it was. Before the Vampire showed up.

and dont start "we know that there are only..." no, we dont, like I said there are 10 years of story in blank, neither I our you can know what happen during that time, since that never comes up.

Ghod, than you could say that Confed can have a fighter capable of destroying entire planets, because we never hear that they don't....

and that base was most likelly destroyed or captured quickly, and Confed wouldn't have a single reason to sell the Lances that remained, or to build more." again we cant tell for sure, we dont know what happened after WC IV,

Except that this base was either destroyed or captured, and Confed didn't have a reason to build more Lances. And the public opinion wasn't the only reason for that. Don't forget the state in which the economy was at the WC4 time, and Tolwyns actions definetly didn't help the situation with the budget.

its just speculation, I can not tell what happened and you also can not tell what happened. That is for a book or a new game to tell, not us, unless we wright the book or convice EA to make a new game with that in there.

Yeah, some of it's speculation, and some of the ideas you sugested are quite impossible...

I put the Dragon because it look to be a ship ideal for privatter mission, can jump, have a anti-matter reactor (like the Galaxy)

Where did you here that the Galaxy has an matter-antimatter reactor? Yes, it would be an ideal ship, and a Vesuvius class carrier would be an ideal base of operations for a pirate clan, but that doesn't mean they could afford one, or even steal one...

and its a great all around ship, like the old Centurion ship, but a lot more small, a la P2.

The Lance is actually quite huge (which is a major disadvantage in combat).

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by papachulo10
Where are the flash packs.

Flash packs are useless at this time...

I mean i love the midway but i miss the grand old days of the Victory style ships(not sure of the class name please tell me). That must be my memories talking but a few of them with a midway could give a battle group an additional punch in case mamma bird got killed.

Eh, usually you don't have other carriers flying in a battle group that already has a mega carrier. The Victory was an extremly weak ship actually, and didn't hold a single advantage over the Midway, other than being able to have several of them split up into different systems. But hey, these days you have Hades class ships, and they're as good as light carriers. Oh, and the Victory is a Ranger class ship.

 

[papachulo10]

I feel for you brother! But hey i gotta admit the Dragon has to take a very close second place to the Hellcat. Maybe its the name, maybe it is how it looks, hell maybe it is cause i killed so many furballs with her. SHe will always hold a place in my heart.