Obsolete ships

[Quarto]

Priv set during WC3 EW
I challenge you to prove, with WC page references that Priv is set during WC3 and then to explain the incredible differences between the ships

I am amazed to even hear such a dumb comment. Isn't the "2669" in the Priv intro sufficient proof? Priv takes place sometime during that year, and then RF takes place towards the end of the year (but still before the war's over). WC3 starts around 2669.198, and *obviously* ends before RF ends. Is it thus at all possible for the two *not* to overlap?

even form WC1 to 3 that time is not enough for 300% inflation so there must be other factors, confee equipment etc

Tell that to the Iraqis, whose currency within three or four months fell through the floor. It's more than sufficient a timeframe, especially when you consider the vast damage inflicted during the Battle of Terra campaign.
Trouble is, however, that inflation usually means prices go *up* rather than *down*. And if you ask me, 100,000,000 seems to be a lot *higher* than 300,000 .

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Dragon
Well, were does the Excalibur have a matter/antimatter engine?

Inside... We're told in HOTT that the Excal has that drive, and we know that the Excal was a prototype for the Lance. Note that Excals drive isn't as effective though (hence, it would probably have slightly shorter range).

are you comfusing the ability to jump with having a matter/antimatter engine?

I wonder if I should feel insulted by that to be thinking like that would be extremly stupid.....

The dragon was the first fighter to ever have a M/AM drive according to Pliers.

But since the Excal has it, than Pliers was obviously wrong, non?

And while the Midway is wider, isn't the Vesuvius longer than the Midway?

The Vesuvius should be around 1,600 meters in length...

 

[AzraeL]

Nobody can deny that the Dragon is a great ship. It has good weapons and shields, reasonable manouvreability and is a solid dogfighter. Its advantages are that it can cloak and that its matter/antimatter drive gives it virtually unlimited range and afterburner.

The Vampire has excellent weapons and far superior manouvreability to the Dragon. It's only apparent 'weakness' is its reliance on afterburner fuel.

The Dragon, (or any ship with m/am drive) will never be a front-line fighter. Why? Quite simply because of the expense. Why build an m/am drive ship when you can build 10 or 20 conventional fighters for the same price? Any enemy can put out 10 times as many fighters as you, and you can't even send them into battle because losing even one is the equivalent of losing 10 conventional fighters.

In general, (and I'm not talking about all you 'shoot down an hundred bugs in a sitting' super-aces out there), a conventional fighter will rarely rarely run out of fuel. By the time they are out of fuel, the battle is generally over, one way or the other. If they do run low on fuel, that's what the Condor fueling ship is for. You won't lose a war if a couple of your fighters run out of fuel. You WILL lose a war if your enemy produces 10 times as many fighters as you.

Of course the Dragon, (and its successor) do have their uses. A number of missions, often covert ops, are well suited for the Dragon. Basically anything with the words Long Range in the title. Spying, Scouting ... anything EXCEPT full on general combat. Assassinations, hit and runs etc. are fair game, but not 1-on-1 even numbers battles. The Dragons are just are too expensive to lose if you can possibly help it. If you want combat at long range you send a wing of Vampires with tanker support. Losing a squadron of Vampires no more expensive then losing a single Dragon.


and now to continue the rant ...

The purpose of the Midway (as opposed to the Versuvius) is that it is a multi-purpose vessel. It was designed for peacetime operations and has to fulfil multiple roles. Got a pirate problem? No worries, we'll send the Midway. She's got a complement of fighters. Found a rebel Kilrah base? Not a problem. The Midway's marine contingent will take care of that. Picking up strange signal from the Kilrah system? The Midway's sci & research department can solve that .... I think.

The Versuvius may be a better heavy carrier than the Midway, but the Midway is more economical then the Versuvius AND a Marine Transport AND a Science Vessel AND a etc. She will still need escort, there's no denying that, but she acts as the major components of several fleets rolled into one vessel. The whole point of the Midway is one of a financial compromise between a wartime economy (churn out Versuii' as fast as possible) and the complete military cutback that forced Tolwyn to do what he did. She may not be the Versuvius, but she's a heckuva lot better then nothing.


[Edited by AzraeL on 01-31-2001 at 22:38]

 

[Dragon]

Your point is IMHO perfect. that is the role of the Dragon and the Midway, Midways were never intended to be a more powerfull carrier that the vesuvius (that still have a problem with the hangar, a suicide run on its hangar and boom, no more hangar) but a more capable ship in peace time, In war it works with other ships as a small mobile base, not as a I can do it alone ship.

 

[Master_Anarchist]

Raptor

look at all this talk about vampire vs dragon...
bring back the raptor!!! it will kick, with its 8cm of armour, ill take u all on.
the scimitar really sucked though

 

[Iceberg]

The obsolete fighter I miss the most is the Rapier, for its swiftness, agility and (most of all) its good, all-range weapons loadout. Sure, it had armor equivalent to a Hornet, but my motto is, if you're relying on armor, you're taking too many hits.

 

[Master_Anarchist]

corvette

i wanted to fly the venture class corvette, but they never let u
crap specs, like 9cm armour ( i think) (no more than a heavy fighter) and only 2 lasers but hey it had a cool name

 

[RFBurns]

I think it would be great if the next WC game was a privateer type game, but with a twist, also have the ability to fly for Confed, militia, mercs, merchants etc. Make it multiplayable and have every ship from the entire WC universe in it. Reasonable upgrades on them of course. And minus some obvious advantages on some ships so they are all on an even ground. Someone had a similar idea in another thread. But the game shouldnt have that waiting period or whatever that is on JG or other games. And everyone starts out on the same level. If you begin the game and a bunch of worthless aces come along and trash your wimpy ship,(cheap frags), you shouldnt have to start all over, but respawn with what you had when killed and start at the point before you took off from base, planet etc, but not have to begin all over again. Even set it up so that if you wanted to pilot a carrier, you have that option. Or a huge cargo ship, or a fighter, maybe even be a spaceport operator. It would also be neat if you can fall into landing patterns, get clearance to land and actually get out of your ship, walk around like in 3d shooters, hit the bar, commodity booth etc. Lots of interactivity and mobility. It would be interesting to see how many of the obsolete ships get bought and count how many fly around in a game like that. Obsolete?....na, just needs a paint job!

RFburns

"Maintain speed and course for contraband search, No contraband detected, you may proceed" [Confed/Insys, Privateer/RF]

 

[AzraeL]

Actually, I'd like to see a multiplayer where you can take customization to the extreme. Kinda (but not exactly) like in Mechwarrior.

You start with a variety of basic airframes, offering a mixture of capacity (space to fit equipment), base speed and manouvreability. Small airframes tend to be faster and more manouvreable. Large airframes can fit more equipment, but are typically slower and less manouvreable (and bigger targets of course). The cost of a basic airframe should be roughly identical, it's only the bare framework.

Now you have to decide what equipment to install. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages. Good stuff generally takes up more room or power, leaving less room or power for other good stuff.

Do you whack in a huge reactor to power your Heavy Plasma Cannon? Or do you go for something more reasonable, that allows you to actually fit some engines in your hull.

Do you want very strong shields, that make you nearly impervious to attack but drain all the juice away from your engines and guns, or do you go for weak shields, solid armor and enormous f#cking guns - kill them before they kill you.

Do you outlay a heap of cash on a matter/anti-matter drive that gives you unlimited range & burners or do you install fuel burners that are far cheaper and take up less space.

Guns are balanced by damage potential vs power drain, fire rate, ammo (missiles or stormfire cannon), range etc.

Everything in the game is balanced by space, power drain, cost (and cost should contain both an initial outlay and a repair and maintenance cost) etc. You can tailor-make the fighter of your dreams to suit your playing style, be it a hard hitter like the Raptor, a super-dogfighter like the Ferret, or an indestructable bomber like the Devastator. Think the Dragon is the best fighter? Build one, then head out find someone who's built a Vampire-a-like. When he hands you your arse long before he runs out of fuel and you have to turn around and by ANOTHER of those damn m/am reactors we'll see which is more economical. Like the Vampire? When that bastard in a Dragon keeps dancing around, cloaking or burning away whenever you get a clear shot until you run out of fuel, then we'll see who is laughing.

That would be fun.

 

[Napoleon]

I agree that would be fun, since the Dragon's primary advantage is decent weapons with a cloaker, so hopefully in this proposed universe, there will be cloakes available.

 

[Master_Anarchist]

u shoould be able to have cloaks as well, black of course, so that u can look like a gun wielding terrorist. not that the enemy would see it but it makes some people feel hard (i'm not one of them it makes u look like a gimp)

 

[Roach]

Another noteworthy disadvantage with the Vampire IMO, would be the guns' capacitor banks. More specifically, the recharge rate is ridiculously slow for a ship of its calibre. Sufficient, as long as you stick with stock guns, yes. But definitely not superior. Which is why she has all the missiles you carry. The Vampire is apparently meant to be a good, solid, multi-role platform. Not a dedicated dogfighter, although it can likewise satisfactorily fill the role.

With this in mind, while you wait for your guns to charge again, there is a reason the Vampire is as fast as it is. Use it.

 

[AzraeL]

Originally posted by Roach
Another noteworthy disadvantage with the Vampire IMO, would be the guns' capacitor banks. More specifically, the recharge rate is ridiculously slow for a ship of its calibre. Sufficient, as long as you stick with stock guns, yes. But definitely not superior. Which is why she has all the missiles you carry. The Vampire is apparently meant to be a good, solid, multi-role platform. Not a dedicated dogfighter, although it can likewise satisfactorily fill the role.

Personally, I disagree with this to a certain extent. While more power is always handy there's enough juice there for 2-3 full gun broadsides. And, considering how much kindness quad tachyons deliver, that's more then enough for even the big bad guys. Against big, slow targets you shouldn't be missing. Against medium targets, 1-2 broadsides are usually enough. Against manouvreable targets, don't use full guns. Considering the slow refire rate of your quad tachyons, you really should be picking your shots with care anyway.

If you're really worried, divert a little power from your shields. If your shields are down, you should probably be spending a little less time shooting and more time dodging anyway.

To me, the current power is enough, particularly once you add in that formidable missile loadout. Sure more is always better, but I wouldn't swap the Vamp for anything in the fleet.

With this in mind, while you wait for your guns to charge again, there is a reason the Vampire is as fast as it is. Use it.

Exactly.
Find target ... get close ... fire ... wait for tachyons to rearm ... get close ... fire ... find new target.
New target acquired, guns have recharged by now, repeat while targets>0

Those quad tachyons have a slow refire rate, but I sure as hell wouldn't swap them for anything.

 

[Roach]

Originally posted by AzraeL

Considering the slow refire rate of your quad tachyons, you really should be picking your shots with care anyway.

If you're really worried, divert a little power from your shields. If your shields are down, you should probably be spending a little less time shooting and more time dodging anyway.

[/B]

---I definitely agree with that Azrael, but considering how easy it is to get swarmed, it's definitely preferable that the power output be boosted. At the risk of blowing my own horn, I've been able to dog the next target almost immediately after destroying my previous one, as I'm sure many, if not all of us have been able to do. It's at this point I find my weapons sorely lacking.

To me, the current power is enough, particularly once you add in that formidable missile loadout. Sure more is always better, but I wouldn't swap the Vamp for anything in the fleet.

Those quad tachyons have a slow refire rate, but I sure as hell wouldn't swap them for anything. [/B]

---Amen, bro. Plus, it's a sure way of whitling down the odds quite quickly. The more bugs taken out, the less you have to worry about.

 

[Roach]

Hmmmmm....reviewing the old posts though, I wouldn't mind a return of the Ferret. It's a pretty nasty little $**t in the hands of a competent pilot.

Have any of you had the oppurtunity to use WCPEdit? I'd love to put a new wrinkle on that little thing with a pair of the new dust cannons, and mosquito RP's instead of the paired heat seekers. Do dome wrinkling on the Nephilim's hides while I'm at it.....

 

[Master_Anarchist]

give me the raptor maaaan it kicks ass. much better than a vampire or a dragon, even with its crap armour/shields

 

[RFBurns]

Originally posted by Roach
...Have any of you had the oppurtunity to use WCPEdit? I'd love to put a new wrinkle on that little thing with a pair of the new dust cannons, and mosquito RP's instead of the paired heat seekers. Do dome wrinkling on the Nephilim's hides while I'm at it.....

I was able to use WCPEdit on both Prophecy and SO. No problems modifying stuff, cept for trying to get external missions to work. They wont!! One misson needs this, the other needs that, blah blah blah, why couldnt it be as simple as WCP? Anyway, I loaded up a Black Vamp with a pair of those Dust Cannons! Increased the charge rate a tad, and added 2 more gun slots, filled them with 2 more PLS Particle cannons. Wooohooo!!

RFBurns

"I got one, I got one!!" [cargo ship pilot, Privateer 2]

 

[Napoleon]

I would love to see the Ferret in wcp as previously stated with a mosquito pod or 2 and 2 dust cannons with decent shields.

 

[Roach]

I recommend......

For SO, I've tried several configs and recommend the following. They've increased my kill score by more than 50 by campaign's end, and increased survivability for my wingmen too. Although I must admit to developing a fondness for fast firing weapons.

Black Panther: (2) Dust Cannons, (2) Pulse Particle Guns
---Her recharge rate can keep up with it, even on full guns. Guaranteed to allow one to play chicken with Mantas and win.

Black Shrike: (1) Dust Cannon (center), (4) Pulse Part.
---With the low power capacity for the Shrike's guns, the firing rate, accuracy, and striking power of a single dust cannon can help give instant relief, and the 4 Pulse Particle guns do well as buckshot on synched fire.

Black Wasp: All I did was turn all 4 into dusters, and left them on alternating fire. Turn your whole front end into a gatling gun.

Black Devastator: Change the tachyon gun into a dust cannon. With the power pack on the Devastator, I'm sure you'll get the idea, and bag the bug every time.

Black Vampire: (4) Pulse Particle guns (outlying), (2) Cloudburst cannons (inner mount, near fuselage)

---I must admit, the Vampire is pretty kickass already, so it was hard to come up with alternates. The quad pulsers on wingtips are useful on alternating fire for strafing, especially when you're after gun turrets. The twin Cloudbursts were placed inner, for better accuracy and tighter grouping, so your hardest hitting guns can give you the most bang for your buck. Use all 6, and *ouchie*.

Have fun gentlemen.

 

[Napoleon]

Sounds like some Interesting Combos but what about importing a Dragon to P/SO and equipping it with the following:
2 Tacheons
2 Cloudbursts
1 Dust Cannon
2x Mosquito Rocked pods
8 Artimis ELRIR
2 Valiant Lt. Torps
and
Huge quantities of afterburner fuel and large power supply for guns
and
Speed 750 AB 1600
Armor 300 all round
Shields 650 all round

Now that would be pretty good