Pc Gameplay List

[Sonntag]

Originally posted by Dragon
Well, we also give up Macau...
The stuka was a dive bomber, It worked well in suporting army units but in the Battle of England it was just a easy prey.
The BF109 was a good solid plane but the Spitfire was superior in some fields (but the main fighter of RAF at the start was the Hurricane that was inferior to the BF109), until the FW190 show up.
Hittler was the cause of many Germany mistakes during the war, the invasion of russia was the biggest of all (it was stupid, if he wanted to do that, he sould have waited for england to be finnished).


[Edited by Dragon on 03-29-2001 at 06:35]

Absolutely correct. Stuka means Sturzkampfbomber (Dive Battle Bomber), and it was slow, poorly maneuverable and not suited for the BoB, however as a close support Dive Bomber it did a fine job (in the start of the war).

I think that the Bf109 and the Spitfire were almost equal, the difference was not that big to make a difference. It is good that you mention the Focke Wulf FW190 which really was a great fighter, much superior to the Spitfire.

However, all German fighters of WW2 shared one weakness, their range was extremely limited. That meant that they couldn't escort the bombers all the way, neither could they stay long enough over enemy territory, and they had to break off engagements in order to return to base. Both the Spitfire and later on the Mustang had a much better range.

 

[RFBurns]

Originally posted by Raptor

Originally posted by Cricket
Yeah, the more I learn about it the Allies beating Hitler it seemes as if it was mostly because of incredibly good luck...

[Edited by Cricket on 03-28-2001 at 19:14]

Well, that and a lot of bad decisions by the Nazi high command. Like they say though, fortune favours the bold. By having the couarge and the determination to hang on, the British gave themselves the chance to not only surive but to win.

Best, Raptor

Had Hitler deployed some of those new weapons they were working on (the jet planes should have been fighters, not multi role planes) its quite possible they could have won the war. There was alot of bad decisions made by Hitler and his goons. Both sides fought bravely and hard. Many died on both sides too. It is a war that displayed human kinds worst side. Many innocents got put in the middle and were simply wiped out of existance. Nothing could compare to what took place in those camps and the war itself. Many people were led to their deaths thinking they were going to work. Many brave soldiers did the impossible, many died. In the end tho, it all came out for the better. Just remember those that gave their lives for what we have today. Visit your local WWII memorials, talk to vets of that era, read up on it. The History Channel has many documentaries on WWII and the sacrifices the soldiers made. You would be suprised to what they didnt tell us in the text books and what they show today. The real thing that ended the war was of course the A-bomb. But Hitler could have just as easily come up with that bomb, had they made the right decisions at the right time. Thank God it ended the way it did.

God bless all those who gave their lives to give us the world we live in today. Salute.

RFBurns

 

[Shooter]

Originally posted by RFBurns
The real thing that ended the war was of course the A-bomb. But Hitler could have just as easily come up with that bomb, had they made the right decisions at the right time. Thank God it ended the way it did. [/B]

The Germans were in process of completing the first atom bomb when the British found out about it. They had a secret lab in Norway (?) where they produced heavy water. That heavy water was to be sended to Germany by boat, so, the british high command sended a platoon of commandos to destroy the shipment, but they died when the plane crashed. Finaly, commandos from Norway sunked the boat. I think it was like this, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[RFBurns]

That sounds correct. They (Hitler) were developing their version of an A-bomb and they indeed needed a supply of the heavy water for it. They were in short supply of many materials. The British did have plans to stop them from further development. Thankfully they succeeded. Its good that things worked out like they did, I doubt we would be sitting here chatting in chat zones had the war turned out different. Well maybe there would be chat zones, but ladden with swastikas and pics of Hitler all over the pages.

RFBurns

 

[Hobbie]

I really don't think that it would have been possible to take the U.S. We are just way too big. Japan and Germany combined don't have the manpower to rule over such a large area (Canada would have to be taken too). I just think they would start to run out of soldiers. Italy had already conceded by '43 anyways. If Germany had managed to drop an A-bomb on London, England would be taken over. But if they dropped one on New York or Washington, the U.S. would just keep fighting. That's a thing about Americans- don't piss us off in war.

 

[Sonntag]

Originally posted by Hobbie
I really don't think that it would have been possible to take the U.S. We are just way too big. Japan and Germany combined don't have the manpower to rule over such a large area (Canada would have to be taken too). I just think they would start to run out of soldiers. Italy had already conceded by '43 anyways. If Germany had managed to drop an A-bomb on London, England would be taken over. But if they dropped one on New York or Washington, the U.S. would just keep fighting. That's a thing about Americans- don't piss us off in war.

The real problem is another: If Germany really had developed the A-Bomb, Hitler would have used it. Even though I doubt that they could have manufactured a lot of A-Bombs due to the shortages of Heavy Water, a British surrender (or extinction after the destruction of London) would have made it impossible for the US to deploy strategic Bombers in the UK. So, Germany would have gained valuable time, lets say 5-10 years, if not even more. In this time, the Germans could have developed the V2 to a strategic intercontinental or at least transcontinental nuclear missile which could have threatened the US, too.

The nuclear Fallout would have been even worse.

Maybe this is a bit too hypothetical, but I am glad that we lost the war soon enough, so that we were neither nuked by the US nor had time to develop such a bomb by ourselves.

 

[RFBurns]

Yep, they may have had better performing equipment (tanks/planes/guns)but the Allied forces had numbers! Plus the rate of manufacture of hardware vs their rate could not match the allies.

RFBurns

 

[RFBurns]

There are those that still deny the events of the camps. Most Germans do not like to talk about it. I dont blame them. Its not something I would want future generations to find out. Many Germans were fooled by Hitler and his plans. His "Ultimat Solution" was simply evil. And he drove his people into a situation they could do nothing about. Hopefully history wont repeat itself with some rouge country trying to take on the world. The US will throw what they call "Full Spectrum Domination" at them. Which basically means the US will have the hardware, the enemy will have rocks and sticks. It would be a no win situation for any military or country to try to take on the world. But regardless of which side has what, they both will remember the results of a nuclear weapon and what it does long long after it is dropped. That alone has kept this world from self destruction.

RFBurns

 

[Sonntag]

Originally posted by RFBurns
Yep, they may have had better performing equipment (tanks/planes/guns)but the Allied forces had numbers! Plus the rate of manufacture of hardware vs their rate could not match the allies.

RFBurns

And we shouldn't forget that the Allies had a lot more people. YOu don't need to be a strategic genious to realise that a war against the rest of the world was meaningless. The Blitzkrieg tactics worked well in Europe, but still it is completely idiotic to fight a two front war.

 

[Michael_A]

Damn RFburns how old are you? Just kidding I remember the days of 8088 and TRS-80's too. I played WC1 on a 286 running a 16Mhz (for those unaware that was a hot pc).

 

[RFBurns]

Im thirty something! Actually 35. But a kid at heart!

RFBurns

(I still have that TRaSh 80 with the cassette drive! )

 

[Michael_A]

Sorry posted in the wrong thread!

 

[Raptor]

Originally posted by Quarto
Woo, long post, brace yourselves...

Much less combat experience? The RAF had a lot of experienced pilots. I don't want to sound too much like some sort of crazy nationalist here, but the Polish, once again, came to your rescue . Some of your highest-scoring squadrons consisted of Polish pilots that made their way to England after having fought against the Luftwaffe in September.

Heh. And fine pilots they were too. If I remember my numbers right, the Poles contributed the highest number of non British pilots to that battle, followed by...the New Zealanders. What I meant by much less combat experiance was though, was that the RAF overall had seen a lot less fighting then the Luftwaffe, escpecially the Experten who were leading wings and squadrons.

Best, Raptor

 

[Raptor]

Originally posted by Sonntag

Absolutely correct. Stuka means Sturzkampfbomber (Dive Battle Bomber), and it was slow, poorly maneuverable and not suited for the BoB, however as a close support Dive Bomber it did a fine job (in the start of the war).

Yep, though its reputation was established in situations where the enemy air threat was low or non-existent. Where the enemy fighters did show up, the Stukas were little more than target practice for Spitfire or Hurricane pilots.

I think that the Bf109 and the Spitfire were almost equal, the difference was not that big to make a difference. It is good that you mention the Focke Wulf FW190 which really was a great fighter, much superior to the Spitfire.

Debatable, considering that in the final stages of the war, RAF pilots shot FW 190s out of the sky in large numbers. Of course, that had also had a lot to do with the fact that German Experten were mostly dead or on the Eastern Front at this time, but the Spitfire, in terms of speed and performance was developed too much greater extents than the FW-190 was.

Best, Raptor

 

[Mekt-Hakkikt]

I just have to add my two pence:

The FW190 might not have been as fast as the Spitfire but it surely was more heavily armed. And BTW, we always have to keep in mind that the fighters did have a lot of different versions during the war and their capabilities changed a lot.

 

[Sonntag]

Originally posted by Raptor

Originally posted by Sonntag

Yep, though its reputation was established in situations where the enemy air threat was low or non-existent. Where the enemy fighters did show up, the Stukas were little more than target practice for Spitfire or Hurricane pilots.

Debatable, considering that in the final stages of the war, RAF pilots shot FW 190s out of the sky in large numbers. Of course, that had also had a lot to do with the fact that German Experten were mostly dead or on the Eastern Front at this time, but the Spitfire, in terms of speed and performance was developed too much greater extents than the FW-190 was.

Best, Raptor

I'm no expert in this area, but the fact that it became more and more difficult to develop and build new, better engines in Germany due to the bombings of the factories surely made it easier for the allies to produce superior fighters. Additionally, the Germans tended to use inexperienced kids (Hitlerjugend) in many ways in the end of the war. I don't know if they also were piloting Fighters (it was planned, the Me 162 should be piloted by HJ members, but the war was over before it was completed), but I'm pretty sure that the training was reduced in the last stages of the war, so that inexperienced pilots flew the fighters (my grandfather was 16 when the war ended, and he flew sailplanes in the hitlerjugend, he said that the education got more and more pressed during the war).

Somehow it is astonishing that the Germans were able to produce the Me262 Jet Fighters in huge numbers in the last two years, this was only possible by abusing Jewish and other workers, however, which must never be forgotten.

 

[Hobbie]

There was a great Polish ace who flew in WWII for the Poles and then for the Brits. Skalski, was his name IIRC. He became one of the best Allied pilots in the war. Kobayashi (sp?), Galland, and Hartmann are probably the best in my opinion. I think the Axis had much better pilots.

 

[Hobbie]

The Fw-190 had about 4 or 5 variants before the war ended. The newest variants almost could compare to the Spit. The Me-262 was the most capable fighter in the war, problem was Germany was running very low on pilots. Very rarely did more than 2 Me-262s fly together. The P-51s (Mustangs) would band together in groups of six or more and shoot down the Me-262s (they were not invincible, just very fast- armor wasn't that great either). Since most of Germany's great pilots were dead (Galland flew an Me-262 late in the war and survived, however), they had to rush in green pilots who were really too young to fly. This made it easier for the Americans- specifically the 8th Air Force (who had kinda taken over in Europe, at least in the air) to shoot down German planes. After they created the Me-262 and the Me-163 (Komet- not that effective compared to the Me-262, so production was cut down), Germany created a bomber that could reach the U.S. Called the Ar.234 Blitz. Can't remember if it was a jet bomber or not, but I think it was. Also, the Bf-109 had variants up to K. AFAIK, this figther was comparable to the latest Spit and Mustang versions. Obviously, only a few were made. The Allies jsut ended up overwhelming the Germans in the air (in the Pacific, the Allies had much better technology).

 

[Sonntag]

Originally posted by Hobbie
(in the Pacific, the Allies had much better technology).

Much offence intended : If the Japanese Fighters were like their cars, this is no surprise...

Ok I know that many Japanese Fighters were derivatives of German Fighters...

 

[Hobbie]

I don't know whether to take that as an agreement or a question Sonntag But, I think it is obvious the technological advances the U.S. had over Japan. Those German-derived Japanese fighters were taken from old German designs anyways, not state of the art.

[Edited by Hobbie on 03-29-2001 at 16:25]