Do you want the UBW to rescue Blair from the bugs on UE2?

[Ghost]

Hurrah!
And i can translate both!

 

[Quarto]

Originally posted by Delance
Just because it cuts to Casey? So everything that happens on WCP only happens in Casey's head too, there's a similar scene in the end.

Don't be ridiculous. The whole scene is constructed in such a manner as to suggest that it's Casey imagining it. It starts with Casey going into a hypnotised/half-asleep state and it ends when Finley wakes him up. The conclusion is fairly obvious.

Yes, yes, even amognst themselves. But he most important evidence here is the [computer:unable to translate] thing. It's quite literal. Lets stick with it.

I agree, let's stick with it - the computer cannot translate bug-speech. It obviously has some translation abilities, but, just as obviously, its translation abilities are not enough to translate bug-talk.

 

[Delance]

Originally posted by Quarto
Don't be ridiculous. The whole scene is constructed in such a manner as to suggest that it's Casey imagining it. It starts with Casey going into a hypnotised/half-asleep state and it ends when Finley wakes him up. The conclusion is fairly obvious.

Not it isn't, for the following reasons:

It is constructed to show that Casey is thinking about Blair;

Blair indeed confirms the interrogation later on;

It would make sense to speak in the language of the person you are interrogating. Besides, only warlord bugs talk to Blair, not regular bugs.

Why in the world would you think Blair’s interrogation scene didn’t take place? Where else on WC do we see an elaborate sequence of the fantasy/dream of a character? The closest thing we have is Blair remembering Angel on WC3, and we have a pic to confirm it happened. Casey was just thinking about Blair, because was worried, he knew Blair had been captured and was possibly being tortured, and guess what, he was. It was not some psychic guessing, in fact, it was pretty obvious.

I agree, let's stick with it - the computer cannot translate bug-speech. It obviously has some translation abilities, but, just as obviously, its translation abilities are not enough to translate bug-talk.

It can translate some bug talk, just not all of it. It is quite clear, indeed, it's amazing how you people are ignoring the relevant fact that BUGS DON'T SOUND LIKE THE VOICE YOU HEAR AT ALL. When the computer is not translating it, you hear a noise that has noting to do with normal speech. It is unlikely that ordinary bugs even have the biological equipment to talk about "man-creature" and "drift amongst the starts" in English. So, without the computer to translate, you get just alien noise. Bugs have a much chance on talking English as humans on talking in their language.

It's completely different with the Kilrathi, who had decades to memorize "your pathetic descendent of monkeys" so they could repeat it every 5 seconds. And the Drakkai have a special course named "Taunting: Basics" which consists learn how to scream, "You cannot defeat the Drakkai!" hysterically.

 

[Quarto]

Originally posted by Delance
It would make sense to speak in the language of the person you are interrogating. Besides, only warlord bugs talk to Blair, not regular bugs.

Hehe, you could at least stay consistent - you claim that the bugs couldn't have learned English fast enough to taunt us with it, but then you claim that the bugs did learn English fast enough to interrogate Blair with it?

Anyway, you can argue whatever you want, but the scene is constructed as a dream sequence. It's not a psychic thing, and it doesn't mean that the interrogation didn't in fact take place. It merely means that, at this point in the storyline, a dream sequence was the easiest way to show Blair in the hands of the bugs.

It can translate some bug talk, just not all of it. It is quite clear, indeed, it's amazing how you people are ignoring the relevant fact that BUGS DON'T SOUND LIKE THE VOICE YOU HEAR AT ALL. When the computer is not translating it, you hear a noise that has noting to do with normal speech.

Excuse me? We're ignoring relevant facts? You're MAKING UP facts that don't exist. When the computer is not translating, we hear words - so clearly, in fact, that we can tell that one of the bug death comms is actually a Romanian (or was it Hungarian? I forget) curse. Heck, considering that some of the bug taunts are in fact English sentences played backwards, there can be no doubt whatsoever that they sound a lot like ordinary speech.

Anyway, if this was some translation thing, somebody would laugh and call Maestro an idiot. But they didn't, because that wasn't the point - it's pretty clear that the designers' intentions were not to make an ass of Maestro, but to make Maestro point out the obvious - somehow, the bugs have managed to learn our language. Your Kilrathi analogy is completely out of place - these are not Kilrathi, and that's the whole point. What the designers are obviously trying to get across is that somehow, the bugs have managed to learn a new language after just two or three days' of exposure to it.

 

[Delance]

Originally posted by Quarto
Hehe, you could at least stay consistent - you claim that the bugs couldn't have learned English fast enough to taunt us with it, but then you claim that the bugs did learn English fast enough to interrogate Blair with it?

Read what I said: IT WAS A WARLORD BUG INTERROGATING BLAIR.

Anyway, you can argue whatever you want, but the scene is constructed as a dream sequence. It's not a psychic thing, and it doesn't mean that the interrogation didn't in fact take place. It merely means that, at this point in the storyline, a dream sequence was the easiest way to show Blair in the hands of the bugs.

That doesn't make any sense. If it did happen, there's no way Casey could be seeing it, unless he was a psychic.

Ruling that out, either Casey was dreaming it, or it did happen.

Excuse me? We're ignoring relevant facts? You're MAKING UP facts that don't exist.

No, I'm not, you are the one ignoring literal evidence from the game.

Anyway, if this was some translation thing, somebody would laugh and call Maestro an idiot.

Maestro do say crap all the time. People will just ignore it until they have enough, and then laugh and call him an idiot. In fact, it happened not once, but twice on WCSO. He says something stupid, but is only called an idiot some time later. The point is that stuff Maestro says on the comm is not all that certain. A theory entirely based on Maestro comm msgs is not very solid.

Your Kilrathi analogy is completely out of place - these are not Kilrathi, and that's the whole point.

The whole point of my analogy was that the Bugs are not the Kilrathi.

What the designers are obviously trying to get across is that somehow, the bugs have managed to learn a new language after just two or three days' of exposure to it.

Sure thing, nothing is more scary than fast learning skills.

Superdreadnought? No.

Unknown alien race from another dimention? Nah...

Incredbly powerful plasma mega-weapon that can destroy an entire fleet? Who cares...

SUPER FAST LANGUAGUE LEARNING SKILLS? OH, NO! THEY ARE POLYGLOTS! RUN! RUN!

Yes, that's it, Quarto, you cracked the enigma. Congratulations. The Kilrathi Prophecy told them that THE ULTIMATE DARKNESS WOULD COME IN THE FORM OF SUPER-BUG-NERDS THAT CAN LEARN ENGLISH! THE EVIL POLYGLOTS OF DOOM!

There’s even the deleted scene after Caseys asks Blair “Who are them?” and Blair responds: “Death”.

Casey asks, “What do you mean?”.

Blair responds… “Casey, they did learn how to talk English in hours. When they were interrogating me, I tried to resist their probe. Bravely, I have to muster all my willpower to think in a foreign language, French. Nothing I have ever experienced could’ve prepared myself to the terror that followed”

Casey: “The terror… what did they do?”

Blair (cries): “Not until that moment I realized the full power of the alien forces… the full scope of the zenith that mankind is now facing…” (shouts) “Casey, listen to me… they LEARNED FRENCH IN MINUTES!”.

Casey: “But that’s not possible…”

Blair: “Oh, they are fascinated for us, Casey. The Kilrathi were keen learners, but would take months to master a human language. Even Tolwyn genetically enhanced polyglots would require weeks. But those bugs can do it in minutes… They are more evil than anything mankind has ever faced, Casey. We must stop them”

Casey: “But how? They can learn our languages so quickly, we have no defense!”

 

[WildWeasel]

Originally posted by Delance
Ruling that out, either Casey was dreaming it, or it did happen.

I agree. It's completely impossible for the Nephilim to have been torturing Blair while Casey was having a dream about a similar situation. You're a genius.

 

[Delance]

Why open that door? Someone could try to make another WC Movie and make it so that the previous one was a bad dream. Now, wait a minute!

 

[WildWeasel]

Originally posted by Delance
Why open that door?

Why not? It's completely possible and plausible for Casey (or anyone) to have a dream that is quite close in resemblance to an event that actually happened.

 

[Quarto]

You know what, Delance? I'm just not gonna bother. If you wish to fantasize about Confed's ultra-super-excellent translation computers that manage to decipher a whole language based on a few phrases, and then mysteriously fail to translate the very same phrases they used to decipher that language... well, that's your call.

 

[Delance]

The reason why it fails to translate some stuff its because it's not "ultra-super-excellent". Anyway, beats building up a theory on Maestro insights, which included the "irrelevance" of the binary solar system in Proxima. It's a good thing they included the scene where it was explained that Maestro was wrong about that, or else someone would come up with some theory explaining how "if no one called him an idiot, he must be right".

 

[Eder]

Well, that's settled then.

The Facts:
Maestro is one big fat idiot who graduated from the Academy without learning about his ship's computers.

The WCP bugs speak bug-talk, and Confed's computers can translate their speaking after hearing 5 or 6 of their comms... But only when they feel like it.

UE's and UE2's bugs are a different breed of nephilem: the Polyglot Warlords of Doom. They can speak spanish, german, french, english *and* scottish. And that just happens to be a good thing, since the Border Worlds are a pennyless little country which can't afford to have Confed's learn-o-matic translators installed in their ships.

So this discussion really doesn't belong in the UE forum... The only nephilem who belong here are the Polyglot Warlords of Doom.

--Eder

 

[Delance]

Originally posted by WildWeasel
Why not? It's completely possible and plausible for Casey (or anyone) to have a dream that is quite close in resemblance to an event that actually happened.

Yeah, and it's possible for Blair to wake up in WC6 and say, "Boy, what a dream!" and arrive in the Tiger's Claw. But why would anyone do that?

There's a scene about Blair being interrogated. Cuts to Casey worried about Blair.

And there's no way could imagine with any degree of precision the modus operandi of a totally unknown alien race.

 

[WildWeasel]

Originally posted by Delance
Yeah, and it's possible for Blair to wake up in WC6 and say, "Boy, what a dream!" and arrive in the Tiger's Claw. But why would anyone do that?

Nice try, but you're still comparing appels and oranjes. We're talking about a brief dream sequence, not half a dozen complete games.

 

[Ijuin]

Originally posted by Delance
Sure thing, nothing is more scary than fast learning skills.

Superdreadnought? No.

Unknown alien race from another dimention? Nah...

Incredbly powerful plasma mega-weapon that can destroy an entire fleet? Who cares...

SUPER FAST LANGUAGUE LEARNING SKILLS? OH, NO! THEY ARE POLYGLOTS! RUN! RUN!

Yes, that's it, Quarto, you cracked the enigma. Congratulations. The Kilrathi Prophecy told them that THE ULTIMATE DARKNESS WOULD COME IN THE FORM OF SUPER-BUG-NERDS THAT CAN LEARN ENGLISH! THE EVIL POLYGLOTS OF DOOM!

Well I think that the point would be that if they could learn a language ten times faster than any human, then they could learn ANYTHING ELSE equally fast. They could reverse-engineer Confed technology in just a few weeks and learn all the weakness in the human defenses. It's like bacteria becoming resistant to a drug--at first hordes of them get killed off until they adapt to the new environment, then they come back in force and kill everything.

 

[Delance]

Originally posted by WildWeasel
Nice try, but you're still comparing appels and oranjes. We're talking about a brief dream sequence, not half a dozen complete games.

Nice try, but you cut the important part of my post, which was:

There's a scene about Blair being interrogated. Cuts to Casey worried about Blair.

So what undeniable evidence do we have that it was not a dramatic way to cut the scene, but that in fact the images we saw came directly from Casey’s mind? The dramatic cut was to show that Casey was thinking about Blair, but it didn't mean we saw a FMV of Casey’s dream.

Originally posted by Ijuin
Well I think that the point would be that if they could learn a language ten times faster than any human, then they could learn ANYTHING ELSE equally fast. They could reverse-engineer Confed technology in just a few weeks and learn all the weakness in the human defenses. It's like bacteria becoming resistant to a drug--at first hordes of them get killed off until they adapt to the new environment, then they come back in force and kill everything.

However, WCP establishes that the average bug is quite, quite dumb. They didn't do any of the stuff you said, and, in fact, it was confed who reverse-engineered bug technology and defeated them.

 

[WildWeasel]

Originally posted by Delance
So what undeniable evidence do we have that it was not a dramatic way to cut the scene, but that in fact the images we saw came directly from Casey’s mind? The dramatic cut was to show that Casey was thinking about Blair, but it didn't mean we saw a FMV of Casey’s dream.

That argument works both ways.

 

[Delance]

Why go for the ludicrous dream thing? Not we didn't have dream sequences on the other games, it would be completely out of context. Not to mention the fact that Blair confirms the interrogation took place. But hey, believe in what you will. There's no evidence Casey is NOT a psychic, neither. Actually, it makes more sense than a "dream" sequence, especially considering Casey was awake, just lost in his thoughts.

 

[Tempest]

Some people just don't let down..

 

[Tempest]

Okay, Maestro may say some stupid things, but he isn't a retard.

Now; ít's bleedin' obvious that the bugs did learn english. Notice how -only- when they decide to taunt in english, you can understand them? Yes? Good. But of course, they are going to utter the occasional curse or order or whatnot in their native language. Notice -then- how the computer says: Unable to translate. Okay? Great! You're doing well!

Now. Here's the tricky part. There was never any evidence in the game saying that Confed had managed to translate the bug talk. On the contrary, there was much evidence indicating that the bugs had used their superior minds to learn english. (maybe even from the computer files on the Fralthi)

Here's a comment I'm sure most of us a feeling. Who -cares-?

 

[Delance]

Now. Here's the tricky part. There was never any evidence in the game saying that Confed had managed to translate the bug talk.

Wrong, absolutely wrong. When Finley decode the secret alien transmissions, she plays is to Casey they and hear it in English. So it's quite obvious the Midway's computer were able to translate bug talk. Unless you are willing to defend the bugs were speaking English amongst themselves on secret coded transmissions?

Not only that, but it's the same vocie we hear on the ships? Why? Beacsue it's the same software doing the translation.

On the contrary, there was much evidence indicating that the bugs had used their superior minds to learn english. (maybe even from the computer files on the Fralthi)

If you read all fiction of WCP/SO you'd know that bugs are, in fact, stupid. They don't have "superior minds", that's preposterous! It’s clear that they don’t have the intellect to come up with the tactics and technologies they did on WCP/SO.