Capships should never be destroyed...
- Thread starter sninja387
- Start date
Quarto: Oh come on - at the end of the BoT some of the pilots must've survived their sorties without having to eject. And besides we could tone it down a little, so that the computers can handle it better.
Chip: OK so you've got drones with needles and glue. What if the other side has them too? Drones land on ship, drones penetrate ship hull, drones enter, defending drones detonate glue bombs, boarding drones trapped, player fires on ship, boarding drones destroyed, player loses mission due to friendly fire. Not my cup of tea that's for sure.
Quarto & EW: If you're tired of him, just don't respond.
Chip: OK so you've got drones with needles and glue. What if the other side has them too? Drones land on ship, drones penetrate ship hull, drones enter, defending drones detonate glue bombs, boarding drones trapped, player fires on ship, boarding drones destroyed, player loses mission due to friendly fire. Not my cup of tea that's for sure.
Quarto & EW: If you're tired of him, just don't respond.
Wedge009
Rogue Leader
Yes, but if we could fly as Blair the hero, you know what would happen...
Hmmm, I think that's one good thing about not having 'burners in X-Wing, dogfights and what not really do have to be planned well, because if you're here, and something needs to be done on the other side of a massive battle, well...
And as for Chip's drones, a simple EMP blast or a jamming device should be able to take 'em out. Unless Chip is in a different universe, where 'drones' are invincible and impossible to evade. Hmmm, might not be a bad idea to mass produce Remoras - on a single target, they'd be deadly.
Chip is in more that just one universe. He's in quite alot of universes taken from anime and science fiction. There is no way we can get through to him without knowing which universe he is in at the present moment.
Chip: Caputring all cap ships may have a moral ring to it, but it doesn't have any practical use. War is an anything-goes game played to win.If destroying all your enemy's cap ships are tthe way to go, then you have no choice but destroy them all.
Chip: Caputring all cap ships may have a moral ring to it, but it doesn't have any practical use. War is an anything-goes game played to win.If destroying all your enemy's cap ships are tthe way to go, then you have no choice but destroy them all.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Penguin: Yes, there was quite a few of them in fact... but since we all want to be right in the thick of it... 
even if the battle is toned down quite a bit, still won't be enough. Not that it matters - it would be interesting to have a battle end in an ejection pod, and still be victorious.
Wedge: Blair ejected too.
even if the battle is toned down quite a bit, still won't be enough. Not that it matters - it would be interesting to have a battle end in an ejection pod, and still be victorious.Wedge: Blair ejected too
.RE: to messages below
Penguin: OK so you've got drones with needles and glue. What if the other side has them too? Drones land on ship, drones penetrate ship hull, drones enter, defending drones detonate glue bombs, boarding drones trapped, player fires on ship, boarding drones destroyed, player loses mission due to friendly fire. Not my cup of tea that's for sure.
CB: I am aware there could be drones ready to defend against boarders. The thing is, the defending drones would probably have to outnumber the attacking drones to win. One could also send in cheap recon drones to locate enemy drones so main battle drones and/or fighters from the outside could then board & attack those defending drones.
Wedge: And as for Chip's drones, a simple EMP blast or a jamming device should be able to take 'em out. Unless Chip is in a different universe, where 'drones' are invincible and impossible to evade. Hmmm, might not be a bad idea to mass produce Remoras - on a single target, they'd be deadly.
CB: An EMP blast that big would probably disable certain ship parts in the location as well unless the EMP blast was concetrated and/or the ship parts were shielded enough. Even then, the drones could just target the EMP generators as they fire so additional waves of drones could come in to attack. Also, the boarding drones could be armed with EMP/Leech guns as well. As for a jamming device, well, the drones could be put on automatic and/or given communications that use laser light waves. In Japan, they have developed a security mecha drone. The Japanese drone is capable of viusally IDing friends & foes.
Meson: Chip is in more that just one universe. He's in quite alot of universes taken from anime and science fiction. There is no way we can get through to him without Caputring all cap ships may have a moral ring to it, but it doesn't have any practical use. War is an anything-goes game played to win.If destroying all your enemy's cap ships are tthe way to go, then you have no choice but destroy them all.
CB: I am not trying to refer to any animes for this thread or any other thread here unless to give examples, and even then I would not advise that other universe animes be merged with the WC Universe unless that's what a majority of people who've reviewed the WC and the other anime universes agree on. I am more interesting in WC programmers designing their own WC boarding drones and power armor Marine troops to be programmed in the game for those like me who're interested in "Capture the Princeton" & "Capture the Bearcats" type missions. I do agree with Meson's statement about "no choice", but if there's a choice to capture the ship, one should do so.
Penguin: OK so you've got drones with needles and glue. What if the other side has them too? Drones land on ship, drones penetrate ship hull, drones enter, defending drones detonate glue bombs, boarding drones trapped, player fires on ship, boarding drones destroyed, player loses mission due to friendly fire. Not my cup of tea that's for sure.
CB: I am aware there could be drones ready to defend against boarders. The thing is, the defending drones would probably have to outnumber the attacking drones to win. One could also send in cheap recon drones to locate enemy drones so main battle drones and/or fighters from the outside could then board & attack those defending drones.
Wedge: And as for Chip's drones, a simple EMP blast or a jamming device should be able to take 'em out. Unless Chip is in a different universe, where 'drones' are invincible and impossible to evade. Hmmm, might not be a bad idea to mass produce Remoras - on a single target, they'd be deadly.
CB: An EMP blast that big would probably disable certain ship parts in the location as well unless the EMP blast was concetrated and/or the ship parts were shielded enough. Even then, the drones could just target the EMP generators as they fire so additional waves of drones could come in to attack. Also, the boarding drones could be armed with EMP/Leech guns as well. As for a jamming device, well, the drones could be put on automatic and/or given communications that use laser light waves. In Japan, they have developed a security mecha drone. The Japanese drone is capable of viusally IDing friends & foes.
Meson: Chip is in more that just one universe. He's in quite alot of universes taken from anime and science fiction. There is no way we can get through to him without Caputring all cap ships may have a moral ring to it, but it doesn't have any practical use. War is an anything-goes game played to win.If destroying all your enemy's cap ships are tthe way to go, then you have no choice but destroy them all.
CB: I am not trying to refer to any animes for this thread or any other thread here unless to give examples, and even then I would not advise that other universe animes be merged with the WC Universe unless that's what a majority of people who've reviewed the WC and the other anime universes agree on. I am more interesting in WC programmers designing their own WC boarding drones and power armor Marine troops to be programmed in the game for those like me who're interested in "Capture the Princeton" & "Capture the Bearcats" type missions. I do agree with Meson's statement about "no choice", but if there's a choice to capture the ship, one should do so.
Re: RE: to messages below
And that's your problem. You use the examples WITHOUT adjustments. The Wing Commander Universe has a very specific set of physics laws. Even when the writers bend the rules, the general gist of these laws remain. If you are taken technology from another story universe, you run the risk of having your new idea violate a Wing Commander law of physcs. Listen to how we respond to your ideas. Make note of what we agree with and don't, as well as our reasons. In theory, alll your ideas may work, but, for most them, they would never really work for one reason or anouther cause they violate a natural law of the Wing Commander Universe. For your next idea, before you mention itt to us do your homework. ask yourself will it work given the rules and laws of the Wing Commander Universe. Make adjustments for how poeple and thinks work and think. You believe the capships should never be destroyed because they can be reused. This a great idea... on paper. However, it doesn't have any practicle use when in the real situtation of war, a part of the real universe the Wing Commander Universe adopted almost word for word. This has been what we have been trying to tell you. There is no more to be said on this topic, all points have allready been given time and time again for eons. We all gave you are views. They are all posted in this thread. Read them. Take then not as an attack on you, but as real life interpretations of your ideas and their consequences.
And that's your problem. You use the examples WITHOUT adjustments. The Wing Commander Universe has a very specific set of physics laws. Even when the writers bend the rules, the general gist of these laws remain. If you are taken technology from another story universe, you run the risk of having your new idea violate a Wing Commander law of physcs. Listen to how we respond to your ideas. Make note of what we agree with and don't, as well as our reasons. In theory, alll your ideas may work, but, for most them, they would never really work for one reason or anouther cause they violate a natural law of the Wing Commander Universe. For your next idea, before you mention itt to us do your homework. ask yourself will it work given the rules and laws of the Wing Commander Universe. Make adjustments for how poeple and thinks work and think. You believe the capships should never be destroyed because they can be reused. This a great idea... on paper. However, it doesn't have any practicle use when in the real situtation of war, a part of the real universe the Wing Commander Universe adopted almost word for word. This has been what we have been trying to tell you. There is no more to be said on this topic, all points have allready been given time and time again for eons. We all gave you are views. They are all posted in this thread. Read them. Take then not as an attack on you, but as real life interpretations of your ideas and their consequences.
RE: To Meson's message below
Meson: And that's your problem. You use the examples WITHOUT adjustments. The Wing Commander Universe has a very specific set of physics laws. Even when the writers bend the rules, the general gist of these laws remain. If you are taken technology from another story universe, you run the risk of having your new idea violate a Wing Commander law of physcs.
CB: I'd use adjustments. Actually, the examples I'm using would be more of an outline than the actual example used in the game. And when I take tech from another universe I wouldn't violate a WC law of physics because I check the tech to be sure it's compatible.
Meson: You believe the capships should never be destroyed because they can be reused. This a great idea... on paper. However, it doesn't have any practicle use when in the real situtation of war, a part of the real universe the Wing Commander Universe adopted almost word for word.
CB: I understand the difficulties of capturing capships. Which is why I did state that attacking drones would probably have to outnumber defending drones in order to successfully take control of a vessel. I do think that if there's a good chance to capture a capship, one should take that chance. Captured ships are a great source of spare parts. Maybe we could compromise. Let's see if we can determine some WC rules regarding capturing capships.
Meson: And that's your problem. You use the examples WITHOUT adjustments. The Wing Commander Universe has a very specific set of physics laws. Even when the writers bend the rules, the general gist of these laws remain. If you are taken technology from another story universe, you run the risk of having your new idea violate a Wing Commander law of physcs.
CB: I'd use adjustments. Actually, the examples I'm using would be more of an outline than the actual example used in the game. And when I take tech from another universe I wouldn't violate a WC law of physics because I check the tech to be sure it's compatible.
Meson: You believe the capships should never be destroyed because they can be reused. This a great idea... on paper. However, it doesn't have any practicle use when in the real situtation of war, a part of the real universe the Wing Commander Universe adopted almost word for word.
CB: I understand the difficulties of capturing capships. Which is why I did state that attacking drones would probably have to outnumber defending drones in order to successfully take control of a vessel. I do think that if there's a good chance to capture a capship, one should take that chance. Captured ships are a great source of spare parts. Maybe we could compromise. Let's see if we can determine some WC rules regarding capturing capships.
Terrorizer
Spaceman
Hey chip, why don't you go submit your tech ideas to the aces club? They'll accept it.....LOL!!!!!!
Chip: The moment we get stuck having to get spare parts from captured enemy ships is the moment we have to review our logistics train. Armies make their own weapons. They don't rely on stealing it from fallen enemies because supplying it yourself is more reliable. And what makes you think Kilrathi/Nephilim technology is compatible with Confed?
RE: to Penguin's last message
Chip: Just because making your own supplies is more reliable doesn't mean ConFed would not resort to taking ships (else there probably would not have been a "save the Ralari" mission). When you've got a large a number of people who've got virtually nothing, better to enlist them as boarding troops than to eventually get slaughtered like in the Battle for Earth. I think that Kilrathi/Nephilim tech is compatible with ConFed because those ConFed members who work in technical fields can find ways to make it compatible. I remember in the WCA episodes "Expendable" where ConFed encounters a Kilrathi Probe -- one of the bridge officers tells Tolwyn "We could rig it to track Kilrathi passage through this sector". And in "Invisible Enemy", Tolwyn said he would have given Marshall & Blair medals if they had brought the Kilrathi Strakkha Stealth Fighter back to the Tiger's Claw. Then there was the last WCA episode when Blair took control of the helm of Thrakhath's FlagShip. And of course, we had the Kilrathi Ralari that got captured for use by ConFed. Looks to me like Kilrathi tech can become compatible with ConFed tech.
As for examining your logistics, that was pretty much done in the beginning of the war. The main logistics was at McAuliffe. Much of those logistics were lost to the Kilrathi surprise attack. ConFed needed new logistics and so they started trying to capture ships (like the Ralari).
Chip: Just because making your own supplies is more reliable doesn't mean ConFed would not resort to taking ships (else there probably would not have been a "save the Ralari" mission). When you've got a large a number of people who've got virtually nothing, better to enlist them as boarding troops than to eventually get slaughtered like in the Battle for Earth. I think that Kilrathi/Nephilim tech is compatible with ConFed because those ConFed members who work in technical fields can find ways to make it compatible. I remember in the WCA episodes "Expendable" where ConFed encounters a Kilrathi Probe -- one of the bridge officers tells Tolwyn "We could rig it to track Kilrathi passage through this sector". And in "Invisible Enemy", Tolwyn said he would have given Marshall & Blair medals if they had brought the Kilrathi Strakkha Stealth Fighter back to the Tiger's Claw. Then there was the last WCA episode when Blair took control of the helm of Thrakhath's FlagShip. And of course, we had the Kilrathi Ralari that got captured for use by ConFed. Looks to me like Kilrathi tech can become compatible with ConFed tech.
As for examining your logistics, that was pretty much done in the beginning of the war. The main logistics was at McAuliffe. Much of those logistics were lost to the Kilrathi surprise attack. ConFed needed new logistics and so they started trying to capture ships (like the Ralari).
Dark Tower
Rear Admiral
Firstly capturing all enermy cap ships is pointless since amoung the logistics of training a crew to man it let alone capture it there wouldn't be any big explosions for us in the game. Secondly thous techs might mean changing the tech already there not adding confed tech or not to much, as a slight point remember the big gun fire and forget baby. The other instatces don't involve tech as the first is caputing a stealth ship and the second is on about cap ships capture which does not involve tech just knolegde of how to fly the crate.
Personal capturing a few ships including caps when it is easy and advantages to you is good otherwise blow them to hell.
Personal capturing a few ships including caps when it is easy and advantages to you is good otherwise blow them to hell.
The Capture/Blow up Capship discussion
So far we've got two opinions on how to deal with enemy capships. One opinion is to to try to capture the capships by using leech equipment, boarding parties, etc. and thus additionally build up your fleet. The other opinion is to blow them up and go to the next target while relying on supplies from tranpsorts.
Now let's look at the pros and cons of the two ideas.
CAPTURE CAPSHIPS PROS
Captured Capships are good for:
1. attacking
2. defending
3. decoying
4. masquerading as forces of the enemy (esp. when crews masquerade as forces of the enemy)
5. advance recon (esp. when used w/ #4)
6. advance dropping of troops
7. docking with other capships to deliver boarding parties to capture them too and/or nonlethal bioviruses
8. a source of spare parts esp. in Victory like campaigns when you're far from home
9. prisoners for interrogation/examination
10. possibility of new tech (like the tech that BW forces got ahold of when they captured the Princeton, the Big Dragon carrier capship that had all the Black Lance fighter's Dragons).
11. attracting enemies for ambush (see 4 and send out fake distress messages)
12. persuading captured crews to encourage other capship crews to surrender
13. forcing leaders (like Thrak) to order a cease-fire
14. using them to send out signals to forces friendly to capship indicating everything is ok
15. decreasing morale of enemies (it's despekable when the enemy gets a free capship)
16. decreasing morale of enemies (it's despekable when the enemy gets a free capship)
17. being effectively examined to see if they're correctly controlled -- i.e., there might have been part of the capship that can activate itself to perform a threat
CAPTURE CAPSHIP CONS
Capships that are potential targets for capture might:
1. have a sufficient defense against capture (gun turrets, shields, armor, defensive parties, life support can be cut off in certain areas and spray weapons can be used, gravity decks can be shut down in certain areas)
2. be instructed to self-destruct/self-disable if certain codes aren't periodically typed into ship's main computer
3. be instructed to send out warnings to ships in adjacent star systems
BLOW UP CAPSHIP PROS
1. gets rid of capship problem quickly
2. reduces possibility of crews warning adjacent star systems
3. boarding parties aren't subject to being fired upon from anti-boarding party defensive equipment
BLOW UP CAPSHIP CONS
Blown up capships can't be used for:
1. attacking
2. defending
3. decoying
4. masquerading as forces of the enemy (esp. when crews masquerade as forces of the enemy)
5. advance recon (esp. when used w/ #4)
6. advance dropping of troops
7. docking with other capships to deliver boarding parties to capture them too and/or nonlethal bioviruses
8. a source of spare parts esp. in Victory like campaigns when you're far from home
9. prisoners for interrogation/examination
10. possibility of new tech (like the tech that BW forces got ahold of when they captured the Princeton, the Big Dragon carrier capship that had all the Black Lance fighter's Dragons).
11. attracting enemies for ambush (see 4 and send out fake distress messages)
12. persuading captured crews to encourage other capship crews to surrender
13. forcing leaders (like Thrak) to order a cease-fire
14. using them to send out signals to forces friendly to capship indicating everything is ok
15. increasing the difficulty of having all enemy ships being tracked
16. decreasing morale of enemies (it's despekable when the enemy gets a free capship)
17. being effectively examined to see if they're correctly controlled -- i.e., there might have been part of the capship that can activate itself to perform a threat
To sum up everything in this post, it looks like the pros of capturing a ship are better than the cons of destroying a ship as long as one can get effectively past defenses.
So far we've got two opinions on how to deal with enemy capships. One opinion is to to try to capture the capships by using leech equipment, boarding parties, etc. and thus additionally build up your fleet. The other opinion is to blow them up and go to the next target while relying on supplies from tranpsorts.
Now let's look at the pros and cons of the two ideas.
CAPTURE CAPSHIPS PROS
Captured Capships are good for:
1. attacking
2. defending
3. decoying
4. masquerading as forces of the enemy (esp. when crews masquerade as forces of the enemy)
5. advance recon (esp. when used w/ #4)
6. advance dropping of troops
7. docking with other capships to deliver boarding parties to capture them too and/or nonlethal bioviruses
8. a source of spare parts esp. in Victory like campaigns when you're far from home
9. prisoners for interrogation/examination
10. possibility of new tech (like the tech that BW forces got ahold of when they captured the Princeton, the Big Dragon carrier capship that had all the Black Lance fighter's Dragons).
11. attracting enemies for ambush (see 4 and send out fake distress messages)
12. persuading captured crews to encourage other capship crews to surrender
13. forcing leaders (like Thrak) to order a cease-fire
14. using them to send out signals to forces friendly to capship indicating everything is ok
15. decreasing morale of enemies (it's despekable when the enemy gets a free capship)
16. decreasing morale of enemies (it's despekable when the enemy gets a free capship)
17. being effectively examined to see if they're correctly controlled -- i.e., there might have been part of the capship that can activate itself to perform a threat
CAPTURE CAPSHIP CONS
Capships that are potential targets for capture might:
1. have a sufficient defense against capture (gun turrets, shields, armor, defensive parties, life support can be cut off in certain areas and spray weapons can be used, gravity decks can be shut down in certain areas)
2. be instructed to self-destruct/self-disable if certain codes aren't periodically typed into ship's main computer
3. be instructed to send out warnings to ships in adjacent star systems
BLOW UP CAPSHIP PROS
1. gets rid of capship problem quickly
2. reduces possibility of crews warning adjacent star systems
3. boarding parties aren't subject to being fired upon from anti-boarding party defensive equipment
BLOW UP CAPSHIP CONS
Blown up capships can't be used for:
1. attacking
2. defending
3. decoying
4. masquerading as forces of the enemy (esp. when crews masquerade as forces of the enemy)
5. advance recon (esp. when used w/ #4)
6. advance dropping of troops
7. docking with other capships to deliver boarding parties to capture them too and/or nonlethal bioviruses
8. a source of spare parts esp. in Victory like campaigns when you're far from home
9. prisoners for interrogation/examination
10. possibility of new tech (like the tech that BW forces got ahold of when they captured the Princeton, the Big Dragon carrier capship that had all the Black Lance fighter's Dragons).
11. attracting enemies for ambush (see 4 and send out fake distress messages)
12. persuading captured crews to encourage other capship crews to surrender
13. forcing leaders (like Thrak) to order a cease-fire
14. using them to send out signals to forces friendly to capship indicating everything is ok
15. increasing the difficulty of having all enemy ships being tracked
16. decreasing morale of enemies (it's despekable when the enemy gets a free capship)
17. being effectively examined to see if they're correctly controlled -- i.e., there might have been part of the capship that can activate itself to perform a threat
To sum up everything in this post, it looks like the pros of capturing a ship are better than the cons of destroying a ship as long as one can get effectively past defenses.
RE: To Dark Tower's last message
DT: Firstly capturing all enermy cap ships is pointless since amoung the logistics of training a crew to man it let alone capture it there wouldn't be any big explosions for us in the game.
CB: Well, what are we supposed to do with the troops who aren't crewing other vessels and are just "Marine infantry troops"? And as for big explosions, the next WC game could include in a WC simulator a program that lets one blow up all sorts of capships.
DT:Secondly thous techs might mean changing the tech already there not adding confed tech or not to much, as a slight point remember the big gun fire and forget baby.
CB: So what if the tech is changed and/or Confed tech is not added. Remember, most of the tech is Kilrathi language -- the software -- that would take some time, but remember, in the novel Action Stations, it told how they had 30 years to prepare for engagement with the Kilrathi. In that amount of time one would think that some Kilrathi had been learned (like Jak-ta ga which is Kilrathi -- it refers to one launching a surprise attack). The hardware should be easily examined and learned since it's just, well hardware.
DT: The other instatces don't involve tech as the first is caputing a stealth ship and the second is on about cap ships capture which does not involve tech just knolegde of how to fly the crate.
CB: In reference to capturing the stealth fighter, why do you think Tolwyn wanted it captured for? He wanted the Kilrathi stealth tech. As for the capture of Thrak's flagship, I would consider that one of the best Kilrathi tech prizes one could've got. And here's something else to consider -- the security on Thrak's flagship was so small which enabled Blair, Paz, and the Dolosians on it to have captured it so easily.
DT: Firstly capturing all enermy cap ships is pointless since amoung the logistics of training a crew to man it let alone capture it there wouldn't be any big explosions for us in the game.
CB: Well, what are we supposed to do with the troops who aren't crewing other vessels and are just "Marine infantry troops"? And as for big explosions, the next WC game could include in a WC simulator a program that lets one blow up all sorts of capships.
DT:Secondly thous techs might mean changing the tech already there not adding confed tech or not to much, as a slight point remember the big gun fire and forget baby.
CB: So what if the tech is changed and/or Confed tech is not added. Remember, most of the tech is Kilrathi language -- the software -- that would take some time, but remember, in the novel Action Stations, it told how they had 30 years to prepare for engagement with the Kilrathi. In that amount of time one would think that some Kilrathi had been learned (like Jak-ta ga which is Kilrathi -- it refers to one launching a surprise attack). The hardware should be easily examined and learned since it's just, well hardware.
DT: The other instatces don't involve tech as the first is caputing a stealth ship and the second is on about cap ships capture which does not involve tech just knolegde of how to fly the crate.
CB: In reference to capturing the stealth fighter, why do you think Tolwyn wanted it captured for? He wanted the Kilrathi stealth tech. As for the capture of Thrak's flagship, I would consider that one of the best Kilrathi tech prizes one could've got. And here's something else to consider -- the security on Thrak's flagship was so small which enabled Blair, Paz, and the Dolosians on it to have captured it so easily.
Re: RE: To Dark Tower's last message
Marines are for taking planets, stations, and in rare ocasions, capships, not for crewing capships.......
Marines are for taking planets, stations, and in rare ocasions, capships, not for crewing capships.......
No, it would be in Nephilim lanugage, because the Kilrathi war is over....
30 years? Thou art reading something wrong.
Kilrathi has been mostly, if not completly deciphered by the Prophecy time, and even well before that.
Actually, that would be Jak-tu.
If you have read False Colors, you'd know that using Kilrathi hardware can be very problematic. And the Kilrathi tech was still fairly similar to Confeds. Now they'd have to deal with Nephilim technology, wich should be much harder, if not impossible.
Bull crap. That flagship was under heavy attack from Confed forcess, while most of its troops and pilots were on the ground, but it still would be impossible for Blair, Paz, and ONE Dolosian to capture it. All they did was get to the bridge and stear the thing into Thraks forces, while it was already heavily damaged.
RE: To Earthworm's message below
Marines are for taking planets, stations, and in rare ocasions, capships, not for crewing capships.......
CB: Do you know how stupid that sounds? As far as I'm concerned, if you're on my ship -- you either pull your own weight while on board or we don't transport your weight.
30 years? Thou art reading something wrong.
quote:
CB: I know it says on page 6 "In the five years since we've first had contact with the Kilrathi Empire". I'm sure there's a page one of the characters had said that they had 30 years to prepare. And on page 7 it says "We have seen the one intel report from Remote Deep Probe Twelve, which was launched in towards the galactic core over thirty years ago." That implies they might have launched at least another probe over 30 years ago towards the Kilrathi Empire.
Kilrathi has been mostly, if not completly deciphered by the Prophecy time, and even well before that. Also, you would think that
If you have read False Colors, you'd know that using Kilrathi hardware can be very problematic. And the Kilrathi tech was still fairly similar to Confeds. Now they'd have to deal with Nephilim technology, wich should be much harder, if not impossible.
CB: Hardware, is basically hardware.
Bull crap. That flagship was under heavy attack from Confed forcess, while most of its troops and pilots were on the ground, but it still would be impossible for Blair, Paz, and ONE Dolosian to capture it. All they did was get to the bridge and stear the thing into Thraks forces, while it was already heavily damaged.
CB: As far as I'm concerned, the trio captured it since the Kilrathi troops and pilots were on Dolos. They had the ship under control. They probably would've been able to have salvaged it mostly intact if they had known there were no Marines going to land.
Marines are for taking planets, stations, and in rare ocasions, capships, not for crewing capships.......
CB: Do you know how stupid that sounds? As far as I'm concerned, if you're on my ship -- you either pull your own weight while on board or we don't transport your weight.
30 years? Thou art reading something wrong.
quote:
CB: I know it says on page 6 "In the five years since we've first had contact with the Kilrathi Empire". I'm sure there's a page one of the characters had said that they had 30 years to prepare. And on page 7 it says "We have seen the one intel report from Remote Deep Probe Twelve, which was launched in towards the galactic core over thirty years ago." That implies they might have launched at least another probe over 30 years ago towards the Kilrathi Empire.
Kilrathi has been mostly, if not completly deciphered by the Prophecy time, and even well before that. Also, you would think that
If you have read False Colors, you'd know that using Kilrathi hardware can be very problematic. And the Kilrathi tech was still fairly similar to Confeds. Now they'd have to deal with Nephilim technology, wich should be much harder, if not impossible.
CB: Hardware, is basically hardware.
Bull crap. That flagship was under heavy attack from Confed forcess, while most of its troops and pilots were on the ground, but it still would be impossible for Blair, Paz, and ONE Dolosian to capture it. All they did was get to the bridge and stear the thing into Thraks forces, while it was already heavily damaged.
CB: As far as I'm concerned, the trio captured it since the Kilrathi troops and pilots were on Dolos. They had the ship under control. They probably would've been able to have salvaged it mostly intact if they had known there were no Marines going to land.
Do you know how stupid this coment sounds? Marines aren't trained to operated capships, they are for fighting, and fighting is what they do. That's like telling a navy SEAl to jump into an F-18 and go fly a patrol... Or you might tell a space forces pilot from WC to grab a flechetee gun and kill some cats
No, it doesn't... The contact that this probe made, refers to the Mantu... There is nothing in Action Stations, that would sugest that Confed had thirty years to prepare for the war.
The first confirmed contact with the Kilrathi came in 2629 (5 years before the war), with several unconfirmed ones coming few years before (including Fawcett's World, and contacts made by civies from the Landreich and other border regions). But they didn't have 30 years... Soon after that 2629 contact, Varni refugees started crossing the Confed border, and they brought news of the Kilrathi agressivness. That's when Confed should have taken the hint and prepared for a Kilrathi attack, but the stupid government led by politicians that start preparing for another election before they're even at the office, didn't consider the Kilrathi to be a threat.
Please...
I bet that you could operate technology desinged by an alien space faring race, but obviously a very talented Confed officer had some problems with that, even though he had almost a year to work with it...
That's crazy talk, you're crazy Chip
. They got to the bridge, but there still were hundreds if not thousands of cats that operate the ship... Blair and the others would have been slaughtered as soon as some of the cats got through the bridge door..... They didn't capture anything, they just broke out of the brig.
[Edited by Earthworm on 12-28-2000 at 17:42]
RE: To Earthworm's message below
Do you know how stupid this coment sounds? Marines aren't trained to operated capships, they are for fighting, and fighting is what they do. That's like telling a navy SEAl to jump into an F-18 and go fly a patrol... Or you might tell a space forces pilot from WC to grab a flechetee gun and kill some cats
CB: As I recall Cadet Paz had transfered from the Marines to pilot fighters because he had walking challenges. And as I recall in the WC movie, a space forces pilot (Blair) had a fletchette gun to kill Kilrathi. In the series, Blair & Paz had done ground combat. I do think that Marine Infantry troops should be educated in ship/fighters or at least given some training, and I also think that fighter pilots should be trained in ground combat, but I also know that they should be crosstrainable in a short amount of time.
The first confirmed contact with the Kilrathi came in 2629 (5 years before the war), with several unconfirmed ones coming few years before (including Fawcett's World, and contacts made by civies from the Landreich and other border regions). But they didn't have 30 years... Soon after that 2629 contact, Varni refugees started crossing the Confed border, and they brought news of the Kilrathi agressivness. That's when Confed should have taken the hint and prepared for a Kilrathi attack, but the stupid government led by politicians that start preparing for another election before they're even at the office, didn't consider the Kilrathi to be a threat.
CB: Yeah, you're right it was 5 years, my error. But even then, 5 years should've been enough time for ConFed to have assembled enough people to build more technologies to prepare for an attack by the Kilrathi.
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As far as I'm concerned, the trio captured it since the Kilrathi troops and pilots were on Dolos. They had the ship under control. They probably would've been able to have salvaged it mostly intact if they had known there were no Marines going to land.
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That's crazy talk, you're crazy Chip.
They got to the bridge, but there still were hundreds if not thousands of cats that operate the ship... Blair and the others would have been slaughtered as soon as some of the cats got through the bridge door..... They didn't capture anything, they just broke out of the brig
CB: If there were hundreds/thousands of Kilrathi on board, they should've went for the bridge to take it back from the trio. But those Kilrathi didn't. As far as I'm concerned, the trio captured the bridge and thus they captured the FlagShip.
Do you know how stupid this coment sounds? Marines aren't trained to operated capships, they are for fighting, and fighting is what they do. That's like telling a navy SEAl to jump into an F-18 and go fly a patrol... Or you might tell a space forces pilot from WC to grab a flechetee gun and kill some cats
CB: As I recall Cadet Paz had transfered from the Marines to pilot fighters because he had walking challenges. And as I recall in the WC movie, a space forces pilot (Blair) had a fletchette gun to kill Kilrathi. In the series, Blair & Paz had done ground combat. I do think that Marine Infantry troops should be educated in ship/fighters or at least given some training, and I also think that fighter pilots should be trained in ground combat, but I also know that they should be crosstrainable in a short amount of time.
The first confirmed contact with the Kilrathi came in 2629 (5 years before the war), with several unconfirmed ones coming few years before (including Fawcett's World, and contacts made by civies from the Landreich and other border regions). But they didn't have 30 years... Soon after that 2629 contact, Varni refugees started crossing the Confed border, and they brought news of the Kilrathi agressivness. That's when Confed should have taken the hint and prepared for a Kilrathi attack, but the stupid government led by politicians that start preparing for another election before they're even at the office, didn't consider the Kilrathi to be a threat.
CB: Yeah, you're right it was 5 years, my error. But even then, 5 years should've been enough time for ConFed to have assembled enough people to build more technologies to prepare for an attack by the Kilrathi.
quote:
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As far as I'm concerned, the trio captured it since the Kilrathi troops and pilots were on Dolos. They had the ship under control. They probably would've been able to have salvaged it mostly intact if they had known there were no Marines going to land.
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That's crazy talk, you're crazy Chip.
They got to the bridge, but there still were hundreds if not thousands of cats that operate the ship... Blair and the others would have been slaughtered as soon as some of the cats got through the bridge door..... They didn't capture anything, they just broke out of the brig
CB: If there were hundreds/thousands of Kilrathi on board, they should've went for the bridge to take it back from the trio. But those Kilrathi didn't. As far as I'm concerned, the trio captured the bridge and thus they captured the FlagShip.
Yes, he has. And he had to undergo the same training and actually learn to fly fighters, just like any new pilot would...
He didn't HAVE a gun, he picked it up from a locker on board the Diligent, and went into the Kilrathi ship without permision.
How often? Once or twice. And they're mission wasn't to actually fight, the guns they carried were so they'd have something to hold on to while the cats rip them to shreads, or at least that was the case with Blair. Paz being an unusuall case, has been a marine, so he had experience and the training every marine gets.
You'd have to have people that are actually quite smart. They'd have to be experts on hand to hand combat, as well as know how to use different kinds of weapons, and on top of that, know how to fly and everything that's associated with it.... Even if they did go through some sort of accelerated combat training, it would take few more years.
Fighter pilots do go through hand to hand combat training, but it would take even more time to get them to be experts on weapons. Especially at the time of the Kilrathi war, Confed could not afford to have pilots or marines take any more time in training.
Confed didn't need to build more ships or get more personel... They already had a navy much larger than the Kilrathi. All they had to do was reinforce their borders, not allowing the Kilrathi to set up listening post inside Confed space, as well as not brodcasting information about their military efforts that could be usefull to the Kilrathi, in the clear without any codes...
Bullshit, capturing the bridge isn't enough to capture a ship. And Blair and Paz didn't actually give the Kilrathi enough time to get them, since they jumped ship as soon as possible.