Capships should never be destroyed...

sninja387

Spaceman
If you think about it, it servs almost no purpose to destroy a capship. It makes so much more sence to eliminate the fighter cover. Then you would leech the capship until all its systems go down. Most of the crew would suffocate when life support went out. Next, send in several boarding parties and sieze the ship.

Considering the amount of time and resources spent in the construction of a capship, stealing one would be twice as effective as destroying one. Not only do you eliminate a threat, you gain another weapon against the enemy.
 
uhm, destroying a capship really DOES serve a perpose,

and as for "stealing" one, there are easely over 200 people onbourd a (small) capship, can just take 12 men and take it (as done in WCIV)
 
Uh, despite the popular belief, capships are not easy to capture. You can't just go in guns blazing and fire off a few leach missiles. Besides, Leach missiles would probably be ineffective against the Nephilim, even if they could penetrate the shields.

Also, leaching a ship suffocate crew does not make...



Artist formerly known as Earthworm
 
Well, there you go. A new type of ship class and mission objective for any future WCs.

It could be called a "Breaching Corvette". Basically what it would do is carry a batallion of heavily armed/amoured Marines (approx 100).

Once fighter cover was down, and the turrets were disabled, the Breaching Corvette would clamp onto the hull of a capship, make an opening, and allow the marines access to the hostile ship. It would be a take no prisoners tactic.

For very large cap ships, additional Breaching Corvettes could be dispatched.

As for Nephilim capships, you could use them as huge bombs. Sieze one, load it full of explosives, and send it towards an enemy fleet. when it gets close enough, detonate it, and say goodbye to the bad guys.

Another good thing about siezing ships would be that any ship siezed should help out your carrier. So if you sieze enough, you could have a fleet more of ships to help you out.

Of course, there might be problems, such as staffing for the newly acquired ships, but its just a game, so some things could be overlooked.
 
Originally posted by sninja387
For very large cap ships, additional Breaching Corvettes could be dispatched.
Eh, that's what the marines have their shutles for...

And like I said, if you tried taking every capship you encountered, instead of destroying it, you'd loose the war very quickly.

As for Nephilim capships, you could use them as huge bombs. Sieze one, load it full of explosives, and send it towards an enemy fleet. when it gets close enough, detonate it, and say goodbye to the bad guys.
And the reason why the Nephilim would allow a ship that doesn't answer their coms, and carries explosives which can be detected, to get close to their fleet is?

And you'd have to sacrafice a small crew.

Of course, there might be problems, such as staffing for the newly acquired ships, but its just a game, so some things could be overlooked.
Yes, it is just a game. That's why taking over capships is much easier in the games than it should be... Capturing a capship is much harder they you think, and definetly much to complicated to be risking it.
 
While leech missiles/cannons may short out electrical equipment on a capship, at least on Terran capships, I'm pretty sure life support is the absolutely most vital system, and it would have some sort of backup power to keep it going, even after other systems have failed.

Though I think Earthworm said it all: Leeching a ship suffocate crew does not make...
 
First and foremost, it would take too long. Second, both sides would have to *agree* to do so. A "We will not destroy hostile capships" convention, if you will. Otherwise, every time you sent Marines out to capture a ship, you'd simply be sacrificing them - because there's always other enemy ships around which will seek to prevent you from capturing the vessel. Just imagine BoT had Confed been trying to capture everything in sight...
 
Well, technicly yeah, if you have the chance to capture it without much risk, you'd probably do it.

The problem is that there almost always is a risk. When the BW captured the Princeton they've only done it because she didn't have a full crew, and what little crew was there was trying to help them because, how could I say it, they didn't get along with the "project" people that were onboard.

And those project people still fought like trained marines according to Deker, imagine what would happen when you sent few shuttles against a medium sized Kilrathi capship full of cat soldiers (even the pilots and fleet personel could stand up against the best Confed marines). And I don't even want to think what the Nephilim could do to humans...

And as the last point, trying to work with Kilrathi or Nephilim equipment would be problematic at best. Just look at how much trouble the Landreich fleet had with the Karga. The only reason they were able to salvage her was the help of Kilrathi and experience that Graham had with Kilrathi equipment after being forced to make do with it for nearly a year.
 
All that, and it would be rather impossible to leech a Nephilim ship... it's theorized that their ships incorporate biological technology, so unless the power of the leech weapon can penetrate it enough to disable the electronics it may have, chances are the biological components could keep the ship operational.

That made no sense. But all in all, it's not practical to take every cap ship you see. Chances are they'd arm the self-destruct before your marines could board the thing.
 
There's one decisive problem with not destroying capships at all times. The reason is it's impractical to sacrifice valuable resources on capture opperations not essential to the mission objective.

Let's guage the risk associated with known shiptypes. Transports are the easiest vessels to capture and are similar in nature to ships under repair because they're slow, lightly armed and armored, and have minimal crew complements. Assuming a shuttle full of Marines can dock with with transport, doing so will leave it vulnerable to attack. Boarders don't have clear run of the ship once aboard, either. They can meet substantial resistance from even a small crew, they can run into traps, force-fields, bulkheads, all of which can isolate and contain them. If they're well trained and not too well outnumbered, they could seize the vessel. The next question is can they get the ship running again and opperate the ship effectively? Maybe, but probably not. If a fighter escort is supporting the opperation, it cannot participate in protecting its mothership for a great deal of time because of the shuttle's low speed. They have what can be a very tough job of protecting two defenseless ships from enemy attackers. Even if all goes well, you've expended valuable time and resources on a gamble that could blow up in your face with an auto-destruct sequence. While ships undeconstruction or repair offer less resistance, chances of gaining something worthwhile out of the opperation are minimal, especially if the engines aren't installed! Missions of this kind could enjoy some success with significant loss of resources with a well-executed plan.

Small warships would be more difficult for several reasons. Ships of this type are often fast and are capable of concentrating firepower effectively. These are military vessels, hence they are far more likely to carry trained warriors capable of repelling armed invaders. Military ships are more likely to destroy themselves to prevent capture because they don't have valuable cargo to preserve. Successfully capturing these vessels is unlikely without well equipped, fast-acting personnel.

Medium-to-large warships are by far the least promissing prospects for capture. Unless you can totally shut down the ship's defenses without losing your whole force in the process, odds of capture with a small boarding party are almost negligable. Seizing and controlling what would be a large area with a small force would be difficult at best. It's not like Landing Craft of teleportation devices allowing troops into sensitive areas directly, troops have to fight their way from the outer hull.

What I'm saying is full-scale capture opperations against a heavily armed, mobile force may cost as many resources as it will likely gain. It's far quicker to deploy a few medium-to-low cost weapons to destroy enemy forces than risk finite resources for extended periods of time on what could be a very large front.
 
There is also a certain psychological factor to consider. If your side's ship is captured, it doesn't really matter if it was useful or not - you want to take it out, because the enemy "isn't playing fair". They're killing you with your own guns. Remember the Gwenhyvar? That mission was quite tough, methinks. There was a hell of a lot of resistance out there. Yet, no matter how badly I was getting kicked, I would never consider running away until the Gwenhyvar bit the dust.
Another example of this is the infamous Save the Ralari mission. Why were the Kilrathi so hell-bent on taking 'im out? Was it because of those Marines onboard? Maybe, but there are plenty of Marine transports which are more vulnerable. Was it because of precious information in the databanks? Nah - any information that was there had already been transmitted down to the planet in Port Hedland. So, it was simply because it was a Kilrathi ship. One of them.

What it comes down to, then, is this. Do you want to play WC as it is, with all those strike missions, or would you rather have every second mission be "Save the Ralari"?
 
Quarto: "What it comes down to, then, is this. Do you want to play WC as it is, with all those strike missions, or would you rather have every second mission be "Save the Ralari"?"

Aaagghhhh :eek: ---> [choking sounds]

Are you trying to give me a heart attack?! :mad:

Anyways the only reasons I can think of to capture an enemy ship is:
A) its a new prototype.
B) its carrying valuable information or other equipment.
C) its transporting POWs/high ranking enemy personnel (e.g. Thrak or perhaps the emperor).
D) the current circumstances making capturing the ship necessary or convenient (e.g. the ship has been abandoned or we need to salvage parts from it for our own ship, like when in the WCM they raided that ConCom ship for fuel).
 
Perhaps if only for info purposes, but you'd better be sure the engine core doesn't die on you!

Q's point about the Gwenhyvar is very good. If only because it used to be one of yours, the idea of having a ship like that running about at large is not a bit pleasant, so it makes sense to take it out at first opportunity. A pity if the enemy had decided to take any POW's, but most likely - at least in this case - the Kilrathi would have already taken the to a prison planet for slave work.
 
Originally posted by Johann Cooper
It would make good sense to capture a nephilim ship though, aside from that bug virus thing

That bug virus is present in only dead Neph capships.

As to making sense, yeah, their ships most likelly carry information about them, just like any other species, but then there's the question if Confed could even extract that info.
 
Originally posted by Earthworm:
That bug virus is present in only dead Neph capships.

But wouldn't the virus or at least its precursor have to be present in some capacity in "active" ships too?
 
Well, knowing that confed was able to decode the alien information about the wormhole, I'd say it wouldn't be all that hard to extract information from nephilim ships, unless they store their information on some sort of telekinetic device or somthing like that which they probably do :)
 
Originally posted by WildWeasel:
It could just be a result of decay or mutation.

Well, mutation of a precursor could certainly produce the virus or "bug".

Decay, on the other hand, should be detrimental to the virus (assuming we are really talking about a virus), since viruses need something "living", specifically a funtioning cell, in order to successfully reproduce.

In each case, however, either the "virus" or its precursor must already exist.
 
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