Black Lance Carrier

Originally posted by Nep Parth
The novels are generally accepted as canonical.

That's no going so far as to say that there wasn't battles going on in Circe while the Intrepid was in the Spearadon system, or that Confed didn't have possession of a few Mace missiles in Spearadon, etc. The novels are what did happen, the games are what could have happened, given the same circumstances and level of technology. Blair could have become an Admiral after WC4, but didn't. Catscratch could have died, but he didn't...

Watch Clue for an illustration of this concept.
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It all comes down to one question, which came first, the chicken or the egg. which came first, the games or the novels?

RFB
 
Or you could ask LOAF for free.

Frankly, I wouldn't want one...it takes away some of the fun (and the flexibility) from the WC games, making it ONE story, not an individualized story. The novels of the games is bad enough...

EDIT: And it was the egg. The egg was layed by a proto-chicken, an evolutionary precursor to the chicken. This proto-chicken, hatched from a proto-egg, layed a chicken egg, which hatched into a chicken.

Seriously...I've thought this through.

[Edited by Nep Parth on 05-17-2001 at 14:48]
 
Besides, the question of which came first, the novels or the games, is easily answered. It is a simple matter of chronology: the games first started coming out in 1990, while the first novel didn't come out until 1992. End of argument. ;)
 
I think the question was whether we accept what we're told in the game or novel first. If they contradict each other which one do we go with first.
 
The next question would be, if the games were first, and the novels second, was it that way for all of the game series? In other words, shortly after WCI game came out, then the novel after that, was it that way for WCII, III, IV etc, games first, then the associated novels?

RFB
 
Actually... Eggs with hard shells were around even before the age of the dinosaurs... And chickens are birds, which evolved FROM the dinosaurs. So, egg. :)
 
So you've just validated my argument. Well, it's the thought that counts...

And for the other topic...the games and the novels DON'T contraindict each other, though. So, your argument is moot and irrelevant.

(And moot means "debatable", not irrelevant. This now concludes Nep's Fact for the Day)
 
Originally posted by Nep Parth


And for the other topic...the games and the novels DON'T contraindict each other, though. So, your argument is moot and irrelevant.
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They dont? If they didnt, I doubt there would be all this *moot* irrelevancies going on. Might rethink that statement.

RFB
 
Originally posted by RFBurns
This is why I think there sould be a *corrected* publication...
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You always say that RFB, but who's going to do it? ;)

And who is to say one source is more correct than the other?

Um, let's not go there again...
 
Dragon/Lance

I don't understand this whole Dragon/Lance thing. If the game calls it the Dragon, and the book calls it the Lance, then the official name of the fighter should be the Dragon. The game is what the novel is based on. Whatever is in the game is the correct name. If the Vesuvius was called the Lollypop in the novel, you wouldn't start calling it the Lollypop, because A: It sounds stupid, and B: It's called the Vesuvius in the game, and the game was out before the novel. It's similar to the Tiger Claw/Tiger's Claw thing. People aren't going to call the Tiger's Claw, the Tiger Claw because that is what it was called in the movie.

The fighter is called the Dragon. That's what they called it in the game, that's what it is.
 
Re: Dragon/Lance

Originally posted by Glenford Doofus
The fighter is called the Dragon. That's what they called it in the game, that's what it is.
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This is PRECISELY why we dropped this discussion the other 10 or 15 hundred times it's come up. There are those of both sides of the fence on this issue that continued discussion isn't going to sway, so it does no good to continue.

Let it rest.
 
Originally posted by Glenford Doofus
...the official name of the fighter should be the Dragon.
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Yes, I know this should drop, and no, I'm not a fan of the Lance name, but the Warthog/Thunderbolt explanation seems to work best here. Lance is 'official'. Let it be.
 
I just think that the games should take presidence over the novels. Wing Commander is a series of games with novels based on them. It only makes sense that whatever is in the game is true, and whatever is in the novel that was not in the game is made up by the writer. Like in the book, Blair defects in a Thunderbolt, and flies it for most of his missions, but in the game, he defects in a Hellcat, and only gets to fly it for 1 mission after he defects. Are we to assume that the game screwed up by not putting us in a T-Bolt, instead of a Hellcat? It's the same arguement for the Lance/Dragon. The writer decided to change the name to Lance for whatever reasons he had, but the fact remains that it is called a Dragon in the game, and the games come first. Therefore, the name should be Dragon.
 
Personally, I go by the games where there is a clear conflict. So, in the case of Blair defecting in a Thunderbolt, I go by a Hellcat. (Keep in mind that I have not read the novels.) In cases where the game gives alternatives, such as whether Blair becomes a flight instructor or an admiral, the novel presents the 'official' story. In cases such as the Dragon/Lance dilemma, there is no conflict, since the Lance is the official name, and the Dragon is the name given by unknowing Border Worlders, and that unofficial name stuck.

Really, there are so many little inconsistencies. Live with it.
 
Re: Dragon/Lance

Originally posted by Glenford Doofus
I don't understand this whole Dragon/Lance thing. If the game calls it the Dragon, and the book calls it the Lance, then the official name of the fighter should be the Dragon. The game is what the novel is based on. Whatever is in the game is the correct name. If the Vesuvius was called the Lollypop in the novel, you wouldn't start calling it the Lollypop, because A: It sounds stupid, and B: It's called the Vesuvius in the game, and the game was out before the novel. It's similar to the Tiger Claw/Tiger's Claw thing. People aren't going to call the Tiger's Claw, the Tiger Claw because that is what it was called in the movie.

The fighter is called the Dragon. That's what they called it in the game, that's what it is.
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You fail to understand -- this is *not* a case of the author accidentally changing something. The novel specifically states that the *name* of the fighter is Lance, but that the *callsign* is usually Dragon...
 
Re: Re: Dragon/Lance

Or put another way, it's kind of like we in the west keep referring the Mig-29 as the Fulcrum. Any aircraft enthusiast will know that recognise the fighter by that name, but that doesn't mean that the *real* name of the fighter is the Fulcrum.

Best, Raptor
 
I do not think that they are called "Lance" or "Dragon". Their name is really "Black Lance". "Lance" is used later in the WC4 book for simplicity after the full name of "Black Lance" has been established. Pliers makes it clear that "Black Lance" is the full name of the ship.

>>Page 280,
"Pliers pointed him towards the back fighter mounted on the launch cradle. "Black Lance Five-Four, at your service. Son." He grinned smugly at Blair's stnned look.
"Black Lance?"
"We cracked open a box of technical tapes," Pliers said,
"That's what they call'em. Black Lances. Callsigns Usually Dragon."<<

The name "Dragon" should be used when communicating and identifying someone in flight. As in, "Dragon one, check wheels down, you are clear for touch-and-go on runnway One-Four."
Dragon One would respond, "Dragon One," so show that he understands.

Or the ATC might say "Dragon Two extend your down wind, I'll call your base."
Daragon two would respond, "Dragon Two."


"Dragon" is the identifying callsign, as in the name it is called when in flight (it could just as easily be called "Bubba" or "Dirt"). The name of the fighter is "Black Lance".
 
They are called "Black" Lances because they are being used by a secret Black Ops organization. If they were in regular service they would be called just Lances ala the fighters aboard the Cerebus in Secret Ops. Those fighters were called Black Vampire and Black Shrike because they were being used for Secret Operations. They also had special loadouts just for those fighters (cloudburst, dustcannon etc.) The Lance had flashpacks and probably other weapons that wouldnt be on the standard version. Lance is the name, Dragon is the knickname.
 
Dragon was used for the wing of Lances being used by the Black Lance and as it turns out the only wing of them around. The name stuck and is used interchangably with Lance. But the name on an official requisition form or report would say Lance.
 
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