behemoth
- Thread starter Zebum
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Supdon3
Kal-El
Well first of all, the military has no choice but to what the Senate wants. The only way to prevent that would be for a military coup. And we dont want that. As for why the population would let that happen, its not all of them. We dont know the exact numbers for and against military build up but there are sure to be people who are sick of the whole war thing. Before the bugs attacked, no one thought there was a credible threat that the current military couldnt handle.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Why do we allow the government do to the exact same thing right now? Because politicians believe -- and not necessarily wrongly so -- that money is often better spent on things other than maintaining the very expensive military...
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
It's not really a very stupid thing in this case, though.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
They just didn't believe that arming themselves was a particularly important thing to do, when faced with the choice of that or improving the standard of living...
mpanty
Keen Commander
Mmmmh... I think they acted more prone to "desperation" I think... ach, "desperation" is not the right word. Let me explain.
It is clear that everyone wanted the war to stop, one way or another (except the Kilrathi, but we're not talking about them). 30+ years of war are a lot, and considering the atrocities the Kilrathi did, they were all too happy to put an end to it (or at least, so they believed).
The direct consequences? Well, if you believe with your whole being that the war is over, that is feels so good for it to be over, then you don't really want to worry about keeping the military up, "just in case". In such a mind projection, there is no "just in case". It's rather a "ach, yeah of course, we'll put the carriers in drydock, just let us savour peace for goodness' sakes!" mood.
That was, in my opinion, what the Senate told themselves: peace feels so good, let's work to keep it that way and not cross the Kilrathi... They had hope...
The military, who knew better, did not want Earth's defenses shut down like that, and they were right! Tolwyn had doubts about the peace since the beginning, remember he still ordered that attack on some Kilrathi planet after he received the message for High Command to cease all hostilities.
What I don't grasp well, is why the Senate's decision was so clouded by this desire for peace! I mean, the Kilrathi had committed some atrocius things, people back from POW camps were the witnesses...
Was the desire for peace and the hope that strong?
Was Jamison's influence that big?
Whatever the answer to that is, Fortschen did an amazing job in putting this whole scenario in frame, and the main difference I think, between is game-novels (i.e. The Heart of the Tiger, The Price of Freedom) and the others, is that in the others he had full freedom of adapting the story as he saw fit... and that freedom reflects on the book's quality.
Incidentally, I believe the out-of-game-context novels are Fortschen best piece of art!
[Edited by mpanty on 06-07-2001 at 15:52]
It is clear that everyone wanted the war to stop, one way or another (except the Kilrathi, but we're not talking about them). 30+ years of war are a lot, and considering the atrocities the Kilrathi did, they were all too happy to put an end to it (or at least, so they believed).
The direct consequences? Well, if you believe with your whole being that the war is over, that is feels so good for it to be over, then you don't really want to worry about keeping the military up, "just in case". In such a mind projection, there is no "just in case". It's rather a "ach, yeah of course, we'll put the carriers in drydock, just let us savour peace for goodness' sakes!" mood.
That was, in my opinion, what the Senate told themselves: peace feels so good, let's work to keep it that way and not cross the Kilrathi... They had hope...
The military, who knew better, did not want Earth's defenses shut down like that, and they were right! Tolwyn had doubts about the peace since the beginning, remember he still ordered that attack on some Kilrathi planet after he received the message for High Command to cease all hostilities.
What I don't grasp well, is why the Senate's decision was so clouded by this desire for peace! I mean, the Kilrathi had committed some atrocius things, people back from POW camps were the witnesses...
Was the desire for peace and the hope that strong?
Was Jamison's influence that big?
Whatever the answer to that is, Fortschen did an amazing job in putting this whole scenario in frame, and the main difference I think, between is game-novels (i.e. The Heart of the Tiger, The Price of Freedom) and the others, is that in the others he had full freedom of adapting the story as he saw fit... and that freedom reflects on the book's quality.
Incidentally, I believe the out-of-game-context novels are Fortschen best piece of art!
[Edited by mpanty on 06-07-2001 at 15:52]
Cutting back the military always sounds good because it frees more money for other things. Plus the politicians look good because it sounds like they're advocating peace and all that stuff. The populace accepts it because military cutbacks means more for health or education or possibly lower taxes.
As for Dallas. I simply didn't understand him. If he didn't want to fight why was he in the armed forces? Why didn't he get a nice cosy accountant's job somewhere? Secondly how'd he make it through training and retain that attitude? Surely the Academy instructors would've straightened him out?
As for Dallas. I simply didn't understand him. If he didn't want to fight why was he in the armed forces? Why didn't he get a nice cosy accountant's job somewhere? Secondly how'd he make it through training and retain that attitude? Surely the Academy instructors would've straightened him out?
To answer that question, you just have to look at the Japanese in WWII. Now I personally have nothing against the Japanese, but some of the atrocities committed by them during the war were terrible. I'm sure that when the war ended there were a (perhaps small) number of people who felt we should have just kept dropping a-bombs until there WAS no Japan. And yet the US turned around and helped to rebuild what they had just destroyed ...
), first we nuke, then we assist Uhm. Maybe I'm just not too sure what your question was?
The war with the Kilrathi is over. Confed reduced their homeworld to a pile of slag and they had surrendered unconditionally. Millions of people who have spent a great deal of their lives fighting are coming home from the war with no jobs and nowhere to live, factories for the production of weapons lie idle, and the people are asking "we've won, now what?"
What do you do? There's noone left to fight, except for a few pirates and rebel Kats. You've got the Empire crawling with observers and spies to make sure the Kats aren't rearming. What do you do with those people? You can't justify keeping them in the military and pay them with money you don't have to just sit around. You've got to turn around and get an economy and civilization that has done little but produce weapons and soldiers for the last few decades to convert to a peacetime setting. That is NOT easy. Most major wars are followed pretty rapidly by a depression.
Unless your local psychic keeps turning over these Death cards with cockroaches all over them, it's difficult to justify spending very much on an idle military when your economy is in tatters.
The war with the Kilrathi is over. Confed reduced their homeworld to a pile of slag and they had surrendered unconditionally. Millions of people who have spent a great deal of their lives fighting are coming home from the war with no jobs and nowhere to live, factories for the production of weapons lie idle, and the people are asking "we've won, now what?"
What do you do? There's noone left to fight, except for a few pirates and rebel Kats. You've got the Empire crawling with observers and spies to make sure the Kats aren't rearming. What do you do with those people? You can't justify keeping them in the military and pay them with money you don't have to just sit around. You've got to turn around and get an economy and civilization that has done little but produce weapons and soldiers for the last few decades to convert to a peacetime setting. That is NOT easy. Most major wars are followed pretty rapidly by a depression.
Unless your local psychic keeps turning over these Death cards with cockroaches all over them, it's difficult to justify spending very much on an idle military when your economy is in tatters.
Wedge009
Rogue Leader
Ah, I believe Paladin's surname is Taggart.
(under monthly highlights). There are a few other typos, but they're relatively unimportant, so I won't pester you with them. Just thought you would want to correct something like a misspelt name.How did you get the picture for the Seahawk? Draw it yourself? And how much of the those R&D stuff is fiction?
Again, a great site, 'twas very enjoyable to read.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
It's pretty standard for a nation to disarm after such a war -- look at what we did after WW2... there's no way the peacetime economy can handle all that military.
Keeping up a huge military force is always costly and is extreemly stupid if you are not at war.
Look at all those african countries which can't feed their people but fly modern Jet's and have great armies to kill each other. I don't want to live in those countries.
Or look at china greatest Air force in the world still no one wants to live there.
Confed was absolutly right to disarm after the kilrathi war and i still doubt there are any Behemoths left:
1)Why would you build a 11km ship (wich can destroy planets) in peacetime?
2)Why would you spend trillions of credits or more on a useless big easy to kill ship(2-6 torpedo hits)
3)The Behemoth is an absolutly odd project
-A ship that is big and slow is an easy Target
-Because the amount of energy the ship uses i asume that
it can only fire a few times.
-This ship would be the worst thing to be used in ship combat, Just think of 2 fleets fighting each other and your fleet has to save the behemoth. The behemoth cannot power Main weapon, Turrets and shields at one time.
Keep in mind you need only 2 or 3 bombers to kill this baby.
As for atrocities of the japaneese- as i said droping atomic bombs on civilians and pretend beeing the good guys is really evil.
[Edited by Cadfael on 06-08-2001 at 06:16]
Look at all those african countries which can't feed their people but fly modern Jet's and have great armies to kill each other. I don't want to live in those countries.
Or look at china greatest Air force in the world still no one wants to live there.
Confed was absolutly right to disarm after the kilrathi war and i still doubt there are any Behemoths left:
1)Why would you build a 11km ship (wich can destroy planets) in peacetime?
2)Why would you spend trillions of credits or more on a useless big easy to kill ship(2-6 torpedo hits)
3)The Behemoth is an absolutly odd project
-A ship that is big and slow is an easy Target
-Because the amount of energy the ship uses i asume that
it can only fire a few times.
-This ship would be the worst thing to be used in ship combat, Just think of 2 fleets fighting each other and your fleet has to save the behemoth. The behemoth cannot power Main weapon, Turrets and shields at one time.
Keep in mind you need only 2 or 3 bombers to kill this baby.
As for atrocities of the japaneese- as i said droping atomic bombs on civilians and pretend beeing the good guys is really evil.
[Edited by Cadfael on 06-08-2001 at 06:16]