WC2 and WC3 ships

A

Alyeska

Spaceman
Ok, I am under the impression from what I have heard that the WC3 era ships are actually somewhat old because of fleet losses taken durring one of the Kilrathi offensives (sp?). However looking through the database I saw that WC3 capships have MUCH more armor then the WC2 capships.

Was a new armor created that was put on the ships? If so, would that mean if the older WC3 capships that were pressed into service could hold this armor, couldn't the WC2 ships like the Confederation class also hold this armor? And if so, just how combat effective would the WC2 ships be with the new armor?

And we do know the armor was adapted. Just look at the armor levels of the Arrow in Armada compared to the armor in WC3.
 
You sure? Because the Confederation class Dreadnaughts had 500cm of armor, and then the WC3 era frigates had 600cm of armor with the cruisers and destroyers having 1000cm of armor.
 
i'm glad that you are taking an interest in stuff like this but it really doesn't matter how much armor a ship has...
 
They began using a different material for armour circa WC3. The old ships were, apparantly, refitted with it.
 
Originally posted by Millzy
it really doesn't matter how much armor a ship has...
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Have you by any chance actually played Wing Commander? I know that in my experience the amount of armor my ship has often meant the difference between winning or having to replay the mission.
 
I agree with penguin I found that in WC1 armor was one of the most important things, I used to be one of those crazy pilots who stayed on my targets tail even if my rear shields were being shot to bits.....armor was the most important thing at that time...
then your systems take some hits to and .......ahhh well I don't believe in eject:)
 
Originally posted by Penguin


Have you by any chance actually played Wing Commander? I know that in my experience the amount of armor my ship has often meant the difference between winning or having to replay the mission.
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well ya... but what i'm talking about is the techincal part of it... like how many centimeters of armor there is...
 
I've had discussions that have not only relied on the number of centimeters of armour things have, but also how many they are when converted into tungsten, whether the tungsten armour's actually just tungsten, or an alloy, the amount of durasteel each centimeter of tungsten is equal to, the blast radius of various weapons, the shape of the blasts of various weapons, whether armour is vaporized, melted, or blasted off, and all kinds of other stupid things!
 
Ok, since it appears we have established that older ships can be fitted with newer armor, that means that WC2 ships should be able to take said armor.

Now, since we know the Confed fleet took some heavy losses, can we assume that the Capital ships used in WC3 are infact older less capable ships then the ones used in WC2? And to expand upon that, the WCP ships were apparently advanced beyond the WC3 ships to a fair degree. Would WC2 ships have a better chance against WCP ships?
 
In a word? No.
Why, you ask? Well.... WC2 craft may be refitted with new armor, but the WCP-era craft have more damaging weapons, with higher range, and the ships generally are equipped with better shield generators(I'm sure the generators could be retrofitted, but still).
most of the craft in WC3 were actually older than the craft in WC2, with the exception of the fighters themselves. WC2 capship weaponry relied on one principle:
Less accurate, but splash damaging flak cannons. Effective, but only in saturation.
WC3 capships, however, ditched the ungodly flak cannons and went for a new concept... Laser Turrets. Why the sudden change from WC2 to WC3 in armament, I'm not sure. Considering the fact that these carriers were, in fact, older than the ones armed with flak cannons... could it have been retrofitted to all craft? Unlikely, considering that would require pulling vital craft off of the lines just to switch out the turrets... and god knows how long each refit would take... and if the craft were, indeed, older, and the newer ones used flak cannons simply by innovation... why didn't they carry on the tradition in wc4, with the newer craft? Curious, indeed.
 
Originally posted by Alyeska
Now, since we know the Confed fleet took some heavy losses, can we assume that the Capital ships used in WC3 are infact older less capable ships then the ones used in WC2? And to expand upon that, the WCP ships were apparently advanced beyond the WC3 ships to a fair degree. Would WC2 ships have a better chance against WCP ships?
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No, we can't really assume that... we know that the Ranger class is very old, but we don't really know anything about the cruisers and destroyers (we know that the WC2 destroyers and cruisers are ten years old during that game, though...).
 
Originally posted by Dragon Lord
...I used to be one of those crazy pilots who stayed on my target's tail even if my rear shields were being shot to bits.....armor was the most important thing at that time...
then your systems take some hits to and .......ahhh well I don't believe in eject.
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I still am. All those things. :)

Originally posted by TC
I've had discussions that have not only relied on the number of centimeters of armour things have, but also... and all kinds of other stupid things!
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I think I also asked how ships' computers would determine how much armour remained. :)

Originally posted by Manic
WC3 capships, however, ditched the flak cannons and went for a new concept... Laser Turrets. Why the sudden change from WC2 to WC3 in armament, I'm not sure.
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WC1 capships also had laser turrets. I think it also has something to do with the stages of development of capship weaponry and shielding went through - they come and go in phases.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF


No, we can't really assume that... we know that the Ranger class is very old, but we don't really know anything about the cruisers and destroyers (we know that the WC2 destroyers and cruisers are ten years old during that game, though...).
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Wait a second... Didn't WC2 happen 10 years after WC? That would mean the cruisers and destroyers in WC2 were just coming off the production lines in WC1...

Ok, that brings up ANOTHER question. Just how old is the Ranger class? The Bengal strike cruisers were the main carriers (or so it seems) in WC, and the ships in WC2 were somewhat old. That would mean the Ranger class is REALLY old.
 
Originally posted by Alyeska


Wait a second... Didn't WC2 happen 10 years after WC? That would mean the cruisers and destroyers in WC2 were just coming off the production lines in WC1...

Ok, that brings up ANOTHER question. Just how old is the Ranger class? The Bengal strike cruisers were the main carriers (or so it seems) in WC, and the ships in WC2 were somewhat old. That would mean the Ranger class is REALLY old.
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IIRC, the Bengal class was a fleet carrier - i.e. the type of ship you would expect to be involved in providing fighter support for heavy fighting, or perhaps initiating that heavy fighting using just its own fighters.
The Ranger class, on the other hand, is a light carrier. Even if it were a modern class (which it isn't), the fighter complement is much smaller than that of the Bengal class. There would be nothing surprising about having both classes operating at the same time, especially in wartime.
 
Originally posted by junior


IIRC, the Bengal class was a fleet carrier - i.e. the type of ship you would expect to be involved in providing fighter support for heavy fighting, or perhaps initiating that heavy fighting using just its own fighters.
The Ranger class, on the other hand, is a light carrier. Even if it were a modern class (which it isn't), the fighter complement is much smaller than that of the Bengal class. There would be nothing surprising about having both classes operating at the same time, especially in wartime.
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Ok... So the Bengal was a fleet carrier. It seems likely to me that the Confeds built newer ones over time as well. So when the Confeds decomed their fleet carriers, it wouldn't surprise me if they still had some Bengal's in there. How else do you explain the Confeds having to rely on much less capable ships durring WC3? That seem reasonable?
 
The Bengal class is actually a 'strike carrier' rather than a fleet carrier... they're designed to operate a bit more independantly, whereas fleet carriers form the center of a fleet.

The Bengal class entered service in 2619 and underwent a major design overhaul in 2644. The Ranger class ships entered service in 2584 and were produced until at least the early 30s.

The reason Confed had to rely on 'lower' technology is because their fleet and production capacities had just taken a beating at the Battle of Terra. It takes ten years to produce a carrier shipyard and another five to produce a carrier -- so Confed brought ships like the Victory which hadn't been on the front lines forward to replace the heavy losses.
 
At the end of FLEET ACTION, there are a couple paragraphs describing Tolwyn's hopes for new improved ships to come online...
"Perhaps the new dreadnought-class battleship under construction on the far side of the Confederation might reverse that, but in his heart he doubted if it would be ready in time to repulse the next attack." p.294, FLEET ACTION
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Whatever happened to this new ship...is this the MIDWAY?
 
Definately not. The Midway project wasn't begun until long after the war was over.

The ship Tolwyn was discussing was a large stealthy ship of sorts that he wasn't supposed to know about. It's really hard to pin it down to any known ship. I assume it was either cancelled during the black ops shakedown post WC4, or it's still a secret project. There is, of course, the possibility that it exists and we just haven't heard about it in the games or novels.
 
Originally posted by TC
The ship Tolwyn was discussing was a large stealthy ship of sorts that he wasn't supposed to know about.
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Possibly the ship discussed in the Victory Streak that was launched about 2669 whose sole mission was the destroy the Kilrathi sector by sector and was never heard from again?
 
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