Torps?

Don't forget the WCII (and Academy) Mace. That was one useful weapon, but only back when most capital ships had invincible Phase Shields. In WCIV the mace was too difficult to use (hold the trigger down and let it go just as it is about to hit the ship), and since cap ships didn't have those "torp-only" Phase Shields, it lost its useful effect. The Morningstar was a really short-lived and underappreciated "superfighter" compared to the other ones, wasn't it?
 
I certainly appreciated the Morningstar: a capship killer with AB and strong shields and 3 particels cannons. And it wasn't too much a super ship with the only average speed, small missile loadout and no chaff pods.

Anyway, doesn't the Academy manual imply that the Morningstar is a rather successful capship killer in Confed's fleet?
 
When I say "supership" I mean it was one of those hyped-up special Confed projects, like the Rapier was in WCI and the Excalibur was in WCIII. The Morningstar was arguably the gem of WCII.

I don't know what the Academy manual says offhand, but if the Morningstar was so successful, why wasn't it in WCIII? At least the Rapier survived two games. Most of the WCIII ships were still in service in WCIV. But as far as continuity goes, the best sequel from a technology standpoint was WCII. While WCIII featured a radically different combat engine, WCI and WCII were realtively similar. I liked WCIII as much as the next guy, but something was lost when they made the switch to the advanced engine. I never liked the bolt-type blasters either. Prophecy did good there.

Now WCIV was also a good sequel technology wise to WCIII, but again, something was lost when I couldn't transfer characters, name my character whatever I wanted (save the callsign) and had to live in the body of a famous actor. Back in the old days of WCI and WCII I felt that the character was actually me flying, not some Hollywood actor who played Luke Skywalker. One has to at least admit that while the newer games are great, the personal touch has been mostly lost.

What's your opinion on all this?
 
Living in the body of a movie star sure is a whole lot better than living in the body of a cartoon hero. It's only cartoonish 'coz they couldn't do any better back than.
 
I disagree, I liked being Bluehair more than being Mark Hamill. I agree with Burdette that with the upcoming of Hamill, the personal touch was lost a bit (for me).

Burdette said:
(...)I don't know what the Academy manual says offhand, but if the Morningstar was so successful, why wasn't it in WCIII?(...)
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So, since no fighter from WC2 is seen again in WC3 you conclude from that, that none of these fighters were successful?

Besides, it's the old: "Only because we don't see the Morningstar in WC3 doesn't mean it's not there. We don't see the Hellcat or Arrow (or Sabre or Epee etc..)) in WC 1 or WC 2, still: according to the WCATV they were already in service. Same goes for the Grikath and many others.
 
I don't know about whether not they were successful, but you'd think that Blair would have encountered of flown some of them at a later date (WCIII). I checked the Academy manual and you are right -- it says that the Moringstar is considered the current state-the-art capital ship killer. Maybe they were only in service in Enigma. The way that in a few years they had all these new guns and missiles and technologies astounds me. All of a sudden we have leeches, meson blasters, photon cannons, plasma cannons, tachyon cannons, and phase shields were no longer torp only. I know it's only a game, but in many ways WCIII was inconsistent with WCII. That's to be expected given the improved game engine.

There were always a lot of inconsistencies between games, and sometimes even the story didn't make perfect sense. Why did Jazz want to join the Kilrathi (who destroyed Goddard) and kill everyone from the Claw because they couldn't get there in time (five hours late, but could they have gotten there sooner)? What kind of idiot was that man? Why join the cats who were responsible for your brothers death and destroy the people who avenged Goddard and eliminated the Sivar? I have always wondered about that. Again, things didn't always make perfect sense, but the series was definitely the best I have ever played. It's a shame about Origin... Long live Wing Commander.
 
Burdette said:
I don't know about whether not they were successful, but you'd think that Blair would have encountered of flown some of them at a later date (WCIII). I checked the Academy manual and you are right -- it says that the Moringstar is considered the current state-the-art capital ship killer. Maybe they were only in service in Enigma. The way that in a few years they had all these new guns and missiles and technologies astounds me. All of a sudden we have leeches, meson blasters, photon cannons, plasma cannons, tachyon cannons, and phase shields were no longer torp only. I know it's only a game, but in many ways WCIII was inconsistent with WCII. That's to be expected given the improved game engine.
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Blair flies a few missions in this little itty-bitty corner of the universe. Because he doesn't personally run into a type of ship in those missions, that ship doesn't exist then? It's a great big galaxy, with thousands upon thousands of ships going against each other. There's no guarenetee that those ships will be anywhere near Blair in whichever game.

There were always a lot of inconsistencies between games, and sometimes even the story didn't make perfect sense. Why did Jazz want to join the Kilrathi (who destroyed Goddard) and kill everyone from the Claw because they couldn't get there in time (five hours late, but could they have gotten there sooner)? What kind of idiot was that man? Why join the cats who were responsible for your brothers death and destroy the people who avenged Goddard and eliminated the Sivar? I have always wondered about that. Again, things didn't always make perfect sense, but the series was definitely the best I have ever played. It's a shame about Origin... Long live Wing Commander.
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The death of loved ones, plus fighting in a war that's been going on for years can take a toll on people, and make them do things others would consider insane. Take Tolwyn - the man who dedicated his life to saving humanity from the Kilrathi, through the course of the war, broke down, and tried to destroy almost all of humanity. With Jazz, the thought that the people on the Claw let his brother die filled him with so much rage, he was willing to side with his brother's killers, in order to get his revenge, as his grief/rage-twisted mind saw it.
 
Burdette said:
When I say "supership" I mean it was one of those hyped-up special Confed projects, like the Rapier was in WCI and the Excalibur was in WCIII. The Morningstar was arguably the gem of WCII.

I don't know what the Academy manual says offhand, but if the Morningstar was so successful, why wasn't it in WCIII?

What's your opinion on all this?
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The Victory shows all of the signs of being a second-rate carrier as opposed to the star of the fleet as the Concordia was. That means that you don't actually get any of the top-of-the-line ships until Paladin chooses the Victory as his base for developing and deploying the T-bomb (as Tolwyn had chosen it earler for escorting the Behemoth). Also remember that Eisen says "we're the LAST on the list for new equipment" whenever you bail out (unless he is giving you the "elves" speech :D ). That would tend to imply that the top-of-the-line Morningstar fighters are being sent to carriers considered more "important" than the Victory.
 
Burdette said:

I don't know about whether not they were successful, but you'd think that Blair would have encountered of flown some of them at a later date (WCIII). I checked the Academy manual and you are right -- it says that the Moringstar is considered the current state-the-art capital ship killer. Maybe they were only in service in Enigma. The way that in a few years they had all these new guns and missiles and technologies astounds me. All of a sudden we have leeches, meson blasters, photon cannons, plasma cannons, tachyon cannons, and phase shields were no longer torp only. I know it's only a game, but in many ways WCIII was inconsistent with WCII. That's to be expected given the improved game engine.
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SabreAce pretty much said it: only we beacuse we don't see it in the games doesn't mean it wasn't already there. That's one thing I learned here pretty quickly. :)
For example, the WC3 manual explicitly states that the Photon cannon was one of the most popular guns at the beginning of the war (or somehting like that). We didn't see it before Academy/Armada, still it has been around for years.

Burdette said:

There were always a lot of inconsistencies between games, and sometimes even the story didn't make perfect sense. Why did Jazz want to join the Kilrathi (who destroyed Goddard) and kill everyone from the Claw because they couldn't get there in time (five hours late, but could they have gotten there sooner)? What kind of idiot was that man? Why join the cats who were responsible for your brothers death and destroy the people who avenged Goddard and eliminated the Sivar? I have always wondered about that.(...)
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According to Jazz, the Claw took not the direct way to Goddard but a longer way to intercept some transports IIRC.

BTW, when I played SM2, I never got that much of an impression of Jazz, he seemed the less colourful of all WC wingmen to me. I don't recall having any strong emotion to him. Was he arrogant already in SM2? I don't recall... [should check Wedge's script - it's too cool that feature]
 
He wasn't all too arrogant, but looking back at SM2 after playing WC2, you could see the that the man Jazz would become was rather close to the surface. Not to surprising, as, IIRC, Loaf said the team that developed SM2 as the same that worked on WC2.

Plus, there's this quick conversation:

Jazz: Well, Maestro, I guess this is good-bye. I’m glad I had a chance to serve aboard the Tiger’s Claw. I’ve learned a lot here. And I’ve been doing a lot of thinking ’bout what I’m going to do when I’m back on the Austin. I think my experience here is going to change my entire career.
Maverick: Glad to hear it, Jazz. And I hope we’ll see each other again.
Jazz: I’d bet on it, Maverick
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In hindsight, it's rather clear exactly what Jazz meant.
 
Yeah. After going back and playing SM2, it was kinda creepy when he said that. 'Ominous' might be a better word, really.
 
I still think that they should have used a Flashpack on that Nephilim portal instead of sending Blair to destroy it...
 
The flashpack wasn't designed to penetrate modern warship armor. That's why you can use it on the Ella superbase in WC4, or inside the Vesuvius' hangar (or a civilian transport, at that), but not on the V's outer hull.
 
Ellen Guon and company wrote SM2 as a prequel to WC2, which was already in the works. Themes introduced in SM2 were done so specifically to lead to the events of WC2 (Angel becoming a Wing Commander, introduction of Jazz/Thrakhath/Hobbes/etc., Blair's promotion, etc.)
 
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