this game, WC Saga, and the truth

Edx

Spaceman
:confused:

vindicator said:
I think that both sides in this are right. I do have to mention a few things to the Saga team however. You are fast arriving at the point that your mod, when it's released no one will give a damn.

I am genuinly confused. First I just want to say that I honestly FULLY understand some of the frustration that has come accross in this thread. If I were a fan I would probably get depressed going to Sagas site, seeing nothing there. I'd be like: :( . I would want to see regular updates, just something to look at - anything, just to know that things arent standing still and they are still working on it. Becuase even if it did take a long time to come out, I know that it is actually progressing. Even though we have given some progress reports, I know I would be upset by not having things to look at or more news. I honestly would.

What I dont understand is certian other comments some people have made in this thread. Posts like this one. Because its hard to tell what someones tone of a post is, I want to state that the tone of this reply is simply confusion because I really dont understand how someone can say such things.

You have spent alot of time talking about your project instead of doing it.
Now take this for example. Why say this? You aent just saying we havent been caring for the fans, you're saying we arent even doing any work at all!

that for all we know does not even exist and you just show up in the news for kicks.
So the beta testers are lying? Psych is lying? We are all lying? The screenshots are lies, the new interface screenshot is a lie? :confused: You cant honestly think it doesnt exist?

To tell the truth though, this is like talking to the one guy in highschool that said he'd be a big success and you ask him what he does and he can't tell you.
This is either a really bad analogy, or you really do think thats whats its like. We ARE tellng you about the project, what still needs doing and what we have done. We havent released a playable demo yet, we dont have many updates on the website and we havent been showing much new stuff here, to be fair, is bad. But if this analogy was correct we are just talking, yet showing nothing and saying nothing about it!

My advice to this project is...Shut up and get something done.
Again, confused. Didnt you just complain about lack updates or something? Havent we been too quiet, isnt that why this thread exists? Just because you cant see what we are doing doesnt mean we arent gettings things done.

but when you start a project, you have fans to consider and you haven't been doing a very good job of that.
That is true, (see earlier)

I hope that these comments werent really considered before they were posted, and just a product of frustration with the length of time things have taken and lack of updates, and that would be understandable.

Ed
 

Maj.Striker

Swabbie
Banned
I pretty much stayed out of this conversation because I thought it was silly. Starting with some random fool who wanted to bitch about why a mod he clearly was and had been anticipating hadn't been released yet. His post was ridiculous although the sentiment behind its origin is appreciable: many people have been waiting for this game for a long time and they're getting impatient. Then, Quarto came along and pointed out a few valid concerns about the lack of updates. It was a good point about the necessity of providing regular "fixes" for the fan base that actively follows this project. (On a side note, I think Pioneer/Howard Day has done a great job of putting out regular little updates that have tantalized the followers of the project).

After that I got lost, I think there were some misunderstandings along the way. Loaf, I don't understand the permanent ban of Sphynx? I read and reread the comment about "seeing eye to eye." I thought it meant just what it said, meeting in person its easier to understand a person because you can see their face, their reactions etc. Perhaps this is predicated on a private conversation of which I know nothing about.

At any rate, here are a couple of things that you can take from this thread. People are still very much interested in the Saga project, this thread has been at the top of the active threads since its inception. Some people are clearly aggravated about the amount of time that has transpired with no apparent results, its clear that the Saga team ambitiously bit off a huge chunk and failed to deliver in a timely fashion. However, to their credit, they haven't given up or quit. There are dozens and dozens of failed WC fan projects, Saga isn't one of them yet.

P.S. Saga team, I suggest you don't cite Real Life issues again for a reason why this project has been delayed. It's a broken record and people are tired of hearing it. It may be the truth but it doesn't really matter. Just tell them that you havent' felt like doing anything on it, I'd be much more satisfied with that answer.
 

Edx

Spaceman
TurboTim07 said:
If you're still working on the prologue then releasing a playable demo would help show that you are indeed working on the project. .

Quick reply. Because the demo was turned into the Prologue. We could have released the beta from a few months ago, and I actually thought we were going to. But the changes we have made since then are really really worth it, and I know you keep hearing that and you guys must be sick of it, but you're just going to have to trust us on that until I guess you can see for yourself.:)

I started off being a little sarcastic in this thread, but my last 2 posts really have not been at all. Im just saying this in case anyone might think they are.

The positive side of this thread is that it has kicked our asses into discussing how we will update the news on a regular basis.
 

gevatter Lars

Vice Admiral
As I see it, this thread has started to go in circles. Nearly every sort of positive and negative comment has been given, and we as a team have started to take what is said and see what can be done about it.

At the moment we are making plans on how to give you regular Website updates. Also, a developers diary and some beta-tester reports are in discussion. While we talk about that, Tolwyn and I are making progress on the CGI for the prologue. Furthermore another wallpaper is in progress, and we will release it in short oder.

I am hereby closing this thread.

If you have any other suggestions on how we could improve our PR and information flow, or if you have any other suggestions, please feel free to make a new topic for that specific idea or contact me personaly via PM. I will then try to answer your questions as well as I can.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Heres an idea. We should take all the people that have gotten banned from the CZ in 2006 and have them join the Saga team. Stupidity loves company and Saga seems to thrive in numbers.
 

meisdavidp

All your belief cannot absolve your sin.
Uh... I'm not an FS fanboy. I just love the engine. WC all the way for story, chief. That's why I like the idea of this project. I liked the feel of WC3/4 but was disappointed in prophesy and beyond as far as control went. When I got to play FS2 for the first time, my first thought was that this was how I always imagined the next gen WC game flying. Sorry if that's offensive and makes me a fanboy, wasn't trying to spark anger...
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
meisdavidp said:
Uh... I'm not an FS fanboy. I just love the engine.

"I don't like cars, I just love motors!"

Freespace is like this giant fucking lightbulb that attracts every idiot moth in the world towards it. And it's not even one of those bug zapper lights either - I can only wish the prize of finishing Freespace 2 is that the player drops dead in a crispy state of charred, foul-smelling death.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
The game: It's a mildly interesting game, much like how a bad golf game on Sunday afternoon television is entertaining enough to sleep through. The story is awful and its inability to sell more or less helped drive the final nails into the space sim industry. The game also did nothing innovative aside from being the first game to take up a gig of space on your PC - which I've never forgiven myself since thats a gig of space I could've devoted to pictures of Anna Paquin.

The fans: I've never met a FS fan I liked. They come to the CZ and smear digital shit all over this forum because we take it upon ourselves to say we dislike Freespace in our own little corner. It also doesn't help that they're backing a game that did *nothing* and they refuse to admit it.

There has been and will never be a viable reason to like Freespace. It's like sticking your face in a fan - why would you?
 

meisdavidp

All your belief cannot absolve your sin.
Well, I never played the original FS or even FS2, so all I know is the SCP which is a great looking game that has an engine that in my opinion feels right in the same way that quake3 or return to castle wolfenstein feel right to fps gamers.

Not to mention it's now become a very readily moddable platform. I don't know if anyone here has ever played any of the campaigns for The Babylon Project, but I enjoyed those more than the original campaign of the game.

From what I've read, there's not denying that FS/FS2's inability to sell were some of the final nails in the sci-fi flight sim's (hopefully temporary) coffin, but I still think that the game's engine is the most comfortable I've used. I mean sure, the first Wing Commander game I ever played was WCIV PS version so I guess that makes me something of a WC newbie, but I think that if anyone is going to really help convince EA to bring the WC series back, isn't it going to be us "newbies"? EA knows about the CIC, you can bet on that. If knowing there was a fan base of people who've been playing WC games since the begining was going to be all it took, we'd be up to WC9 or 10 by now, wouldn't we?

In any case, when I talk about FS, I refer not to the game but to the engine. It's a very powerful open source engine with a very talented crew that's working on making it better all the time. As you said, the game itself tended towards mediocre at best (graphics, sound and other superficial elements aside). That was why I was (am still?) looking forward to this mod.

As for the team... I feel pretty let down at how this whole thing has been developing. I still hope the mod is at some point released, but the team really has let us down.

(At this point, I still rank WC4 as best space sim I've played. The use of cutscenes was amazing and the branch in the paths (while not up to par with older w/c games in terms of variety, or so I'm told) Brought in a lot of replay value. Throw in a very capable flight model and you've got a winner. I just kinda wish some of that magic could be brought to the SCP's superior graphics, sound and control settings)

Anyhow, we're all entitled to our opinions, right? I wasn't complaining about your dislike of freespace, I was merely curious about why.

Um... on another note... why's a non-administrator freespace hater even in this thread? Again... just curious.

Um... have a nice day all!

-DP
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
meisdavidp said:
why's a non-administrator freespace hater even in this thread?

I'd say "don't let the door hit you on the way out" but I'm going to take it off the hinges and break it over your goddamned head.
 

Edx

Spaceman
wtf.gif
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Um... on another note... why's a non-administrator freespace hater even in this thread? Again... just curious.

The thing about Saga is that this isn't really their forum. They forsook all this the last time they decided to start a little flame war and went off to play with their toys in private at HLP (which, by my reckoning, was nigh onto seven HLPs ago).

That's the silly thing about Sphynx playing PR man-cum-jerk and Lars suddenly playing administrator -- they already let us know we didn't matter to them a long time ago. In that context, it's entirely appropriate for LeHah to be here.

Now, mind you, you can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting someone that hates Freespace... that isn't the same thing as not being excited about Saga at all.

It's also good to understand that in general -- and in that real context, a silly line like "can't wait to blast some Kilrathi in the greatest space sim engine ever made." seems like trolling.
 

meisdavidp

All your belief cannot absolve your sin.
Bandit LOAF said:
It's also good to understand that in general -- and in that real context, a silly line like "can't wait to blast some Kilrathi in the greatest space sim engine ever made." seems like trolling.

I apologize for that. I have a rare (read commonly misdiagnosed as ADD) condition known as Asperger's Syndrome where I say a lot of things without thinking about whether they're appropriate for the situation. Wouldn't be the first and definately won't be the last time I accidentally misrepresent myself as a troll... apologies!

Also, I wasn't aware of the balance of power in here... thanks for informing me...
 

Lt.Death100

Spaceman
meisdavidp said:
I apologize for that. I have a rare (read commonly misdiagnosed as ADD) condition known as Asperger's Syndrome where I say a lot of things without thinking about whether they're appropriate for the situation. Wouldn't be the first and definately won't be the last time I accidentally misrepresent myself as a troll... apologies!

Also, I wasn't aware of the balance of power in here... thanks for informing me...
I also have Asperger's
 
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