this game, WC Saga, and the truth

Edx

Spaceman
Bandit LOAF said:
you don't hear people talking about 'Saga and Standoff' as being *the* WC mods anymore.
Well only because Saga hasnt released anything playable yet, and Standoff has released several episodes. So uh, wait. :)
 

Edx

Spaceman
I dont know about anyone else but Im really interested in what Pioneer is doing, but I wouldnt mind if they were working on it for the next 4 years so long as I know they are actually working on it.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
While I do not want to criticise Saga for the speed of their progress (I certainly understand how life can get in the way of such a project - for example, for me most of January was a total write-off, simply because I moved to a different city and it took a while before I was able to bring my computer across), I definitely think you guys deserve a lot of criticism for the lack of website updates. A fan project should update its website as often as possible - heck, I'm sure Eder will tell you that whenever Standoff goes for too long without an update, I start bugging him mercilessly about it.

And heck, you guys actually won the Fan Website of the Year award... but you haven't even bothered to post a news update about it on your website, even if only to thank the people who voted for you.

I mean, I can understand slow progress. I can understand how real life issues can extend development time by many, many months - I've been through all that, and y'all certainly have my sympathies... but progress and the website are two different things. I absolutely do not understand why you can't at least regularly update your website. It takes five minutes to write an update, it takes two minutes to upload it, and it takes another five minutes at the most to grab a screenshot (if there's anything to be screenshotised for the update - very often, there won't be, and that's ok too). It's time well-spent, too - because if you regularly post updates, the staff will also see that progress is being made, and they'll actually work harder to make sure that you have something to update about. It certainly worked that way at the end of UE - the last few months of the project, I updated the website every week, and it worked great as a morale-booster for the team. Additionally, it helps to avoid threads like this one (which reduce progress speed by lowering team morale...).

In short, it's very much worth it, and it's not exactly a difficult task - anyone on the team that has access to a computer and to the internet can do it (heck, at one point I used to do those weekly UE updates without having internet access - every week, I'd take all the files to an internet cafe and upload the update from there) - any fan project involving more than one person has really no excuse not to do it.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
gevatter Lars said:
I think their is no point in debating what has happend. We had taken the road we had taken and we can only go on from that point.
I can only say we will finish what we started.
"We don't need gasoline! We can win the war without it!"
 

dazza

Spaceman
Ok so the post may have been a bit offensive, but i think it was done like that just to get a reaction and he got one!

I have been eagerly waiting to hear more from this project so i check the post's and the website and theres nothing, so it would have been nice just to see a progress update every now and then, maybe drop in a few pics or something like that.

All we ask is that you keep us in the loop
 

meisdavidp

All your belief cannot absolve your sin.
out of curiousity, did you manage to get those coding things resolved or are we still waiting on the SCP crew? Assuming that those issues are resolved, would it not be possible to give us an estimate by way of "x quarter, x year, barring RL issues"? I mean I know the whole SCP community has been a little less active than a few months ago (in terms of what gets posted online, which is all I really have to follow) and I have no idea if all the problems they were having with Hard-Light are resolved, but I think not having an estimation of release date whatsoever is not gonna help you. If anything it's just going to make the whole project smell a little more like Wing Commander: Forever.

There's another thing you might want to consider... the more you talk about no sacrificing quality for a soon release date, the higher people's expectations will be when it comes out. I'd love for this game to be excellent and I think the FS engine is a great platform for this. But a lot of people here aren't FS players, the team even mentioned this at one point.

I have one suggestion that I think a lot of people would agree with me on. Why not talk to your beta testers about what they can and can't talk about with the wc gaming public and then start a thread on this site where they can talk about what works and what they love and the sorts of bugs they're running into that are holding up the project? I'm not saying some of it won't probably fly over our heads, but it does indicate that SOMETHING is happening at least.

Just my thoughts.
 

Sphynx

Commodore
Thank you for the thoughtful and constructive feedback. I especially found the feedback from Quarto and meisdavidp to be helpful. Thank you for taking the time to think of something constructive to offer.

What I hear you saying is that you understand the reality of delays, but that it would be helpful for us to be more vigillant in updating the website, even when we have nothing new visually to show (without spoiling something, that is :)!)

We hear you, and we will discuss it amongst ourselves to see what we can do.
 

gevatter Lars

Vice Admiral
I agree with Sphynx and I allready startet a discussion in the internal and with Tolwyn directly.

What I never aspected that their was so much interest in the Website and regular updates. Ok that might be because I have to do with it every day so I didn't realise it.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Sphynx said:
What I hear you saying is that you understand the reality of delays, but that it would be helpful for us to be more vigillant in updating the website, even when we have nothing new visually to show (without spoiling something, that is :)!)
It's more than that - my point is that by not updating the website more frequently than once a year, you're shooting yourselves in the foot. You're hurting your project's relations with the community, and you're indirectly hurting team morale (because who wants to work on a project that the community doesn't care about?).

In other words, you don't have to update the website more often - but it'll cost you, and indeed this thread demonstrates very well that it's already costing you big time.
 

PANI

Spaceman
Quarto said:
It's more than that - my point is that by not updating the website more frequently than once a year, you're shooting yourselves in the foot.

In other words, you don't have to update the website more often - but it'll cost you, and indeed this thread demonstrates very well that it's already costing you big time.
I agree with Quatro! No regular updates - only few screens of the mod. I'am also tired in waiting for this mod...., sry but the last 12 months i dont see any progress, hp is nice, but i cant play with this hp....

So, if it come's i will play, if not, who care's, i don't.... that's my personal opinion!
 

Edx

Spaceman
PANI said:
I agree with Quatro! No regular updates - only few screens of the mod.
Theres been a little more than that

I'am also tired in waiting for this mod....,
:rolleyes: Fan mods arent actually a public service.

sry but the last 12 months i dont see any progress,
Then you havent been paying attention. Even if you put together all the public news you can see progress, and behind the scenes theres been LOTS of progress.

hp is nice, but i cant play with this hp....
Forgive my ignorence and probably a stupid question, but what is hp?

So, if it come's i will play, if not, who care's, i don't.... that's my personal opinion!
See now thats sensible! If it doesnt come out then no ones lost anything except people working on it. Fortunatly, it will.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Thank you for the thoughtful and constructive feedback. I especially found the feedback from Quarto and meisdavidp to be helpful. Thank you for taking the time to think of something constructive to offer.

What I hear you saying is that you understand the reality of delays, but that it would be helpful for us to be more vigillant in updating the website, even when we have nothing new visually to show (without spoiling something, that is !)

We hear you, and we will discuss it amongst ourselves to see what we can do.
Do you realize that, like Saga's last unofficial spokesman, you are incredibly cloying in the role? "We hear you...", "What I hear you saying..." -- sheesh.
 

Sphynx

Commodore
LOAF,

Of course, the other option is that I could actually be sincere. :) To tell the truth, that's the way I talk in real life. I've talked like that for a long time now, and it's because I really am interested in hearing what people have to say. I'm sure if you could look me in the eyes while we speak, you would see that it is genuine. But, that is another matter.

On another note: website updated.

And to show that we respect the feedback that we are being given, we will now make sure to update it on a regular basis.

Thanks for working with us.
 

meisdavidp

All your belief cannot absolve your sin.
YAY! NEW INFO ON THE SITE! I FEEL REVITALIZED! Erm... well it's a start, anyhow. Keep updating with news like that and I think a lot of us are going to be happy!
 

meisdavidp

All your belief cannot absolve your sin.
wow... I just realized something for the first time having a look on the WCSaga HardLight board... You guys are seriously re-recording all the voice overs for the entire game... I have found some new heroes... So many FS mods simply record new briefing/mission specific dialogue and leave the standard in game stuff. This really does look to be quite nice.

Have you by any chance found a way to have the main character's voice give the orders over the comm? I know that wasn't in the original build of FS and I haven't seen any mods that do that, but it would add a real WC feel if it could be done. I always liked that Blair would actually say "Break and Attack" when you issued that order.
Note: if not, please wait until AFTER the prologue before trying, as much as we (me) would love to hear that, if it's not already in the works, we can wait until a later release for it.

This all looks pretty spectacular. Can't wait to blast some Kilrathi in the greatest space sim engine ever made.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I'm sure if you could look me in the eyes while we speak, you would see that it is genuine. But, that is another matter.
You do *NOT* make fun of that. Permanent ban #3.

This all looks pretty spectacular. Can't wait to blast some Kilrathi in the greatest space sim engine ever made.
There are no Kilrathi in Privateer 2.
 

psych

Destroyer of assclowns
meisdavidp said:
psych, that's unnecesarry. I thought we were above that here.
Dude, there wasn't anything that I quoted that he didn't write. Afterall, I was able to find his subliminal true message hidden deep into his cover message, thanks to my Top Secret Decoding techniques. :)

 
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