The First Kilrathi?
- Thread starter Darth Thrakhath
- Start date
WildWeasel
Spaceman
I know. I was backing you up.
Ladiesman^
Spaceman
Re: Re: Re: Potential Privateer 3
I know enough about the game to know that it's NOT Confed...apparently the Tri-System is not part of Confed...so the Navy doesn't have to be even slightly like Confed's. In fact, the way you describe it it sounds kind of like the Landreich!!!
About pirates, remember how many were in P1??!! Confed's navy must not have been very effective either....
I'll be able to really hold a conversation on this in due time...
I know enough about the game to know that it's NOT Confed...apparently the Tri-System is not part of Confed...so the Navy doesn't have to be even slightly like Confed's. In fact, the way you describe it it sounds kind of like the Landreich!!!
About pirates, remember how many were in P1??!! Confed's navy must not have been very effective either....
I'll be able to really hold a conversation on this in due time...
WildWeasel
Spaceman
Yeah, so it's *you* who's not very effective, Ladiesman!
(Edited to remove the obnoxious subject line.)
(Edited to remove the obnoxious subject line.)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Potential Privateer 3
The P1 pirates have literally got NOTHING on the P2 pirates. In P2, you've got several jumps between each planet/ base, and its not uncommon to face several pirates at each jump point.
IIRC, there's also the occasional pirate cruiser, but I could be mistaken, as its been a while.
The P1 pirates have literally got NOTHING on the P2 pirates. In P2, you've got several jumps between each planet/ base, and its not uncommon to face several pirates at each jump point.
IIRC, there's also the occasional pirate cruiser, but I could be mistaken, as its been a while.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Pirate shuttle -- cruisers are mission specific, IIRC.
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
Re: Synchronicity
I always found the Jalkehi and the Jalthi have more similiarities than the Jalthi and Grikath.
And the war ended definately 2669 (about 2669.270 I think)
I always found the Jalkehi and the Jalthi have more similiarities than the Jalthi and Grikath.
And the war ended definately 2669 (about 2669.270 I think)
War's End etc
My bad; I checked Victory Streaks last night and it is definately 2669. Sorry about that (hey look, I'm working with US defense budget residuals from FY02, the FY03 budget process, the proposed FY04 and FY05 budgets and forward costings for years up to FY13; I'm having a hard time remembering what year this is, let alone what year it will be in 600 years time). I can't recollect where I got the 2672 date from.
As for lines of descent, the Grikath does appear to be a descendent of the Jalthi. its easy to envisage an intermediate model (while Blair was trapped on the Space Station) which is a six-laser Jalthi with a rear turret. Then the six lasers get replaced by three neutron guns (Have you ever flown a Jalthi? It can be done by taking one of the Dralthi missions in Crusade and using an editor program to replace the Dralthi with a Jalthi - I found it virtually impossible to hit something with all six lasers; normally the choice is to hit with either the port three or starboard three). Then the airframe gets cleaned up to give the Grikath.
We can trace the Gratha to Jalkehi the same way; first add a rear turret (modifying the engine arrangements aft) then change the forward guns and finally reverse the sweep of the wings (perhaps adding the turret caused a cg problem?) Again, we can postulate an intermediate that would appear in a WC1.5 by giving a Gratha a rear turret but leaving the rest intact.
Thinking about pr-2 last night, it occurred to me that assuming the Trisystem is one of the Border World groups does resolve some of the problems there. We can also accommodate the travel problem by assuming its like Firekka in that the main jump points are supplemented by a large number of mini-jump points.
My bad; I checked Victory Streaks last night and it is definately 2669. Sorry about that (hey look, I'm working with US defense budget residuals from FY02, the FY03 budget process, the proposed FY04 and FY05 budgets and forward costings for years up to FY13; I'm having a hard time remembering what year this is, let alone what year it will be in 600 years time). I can't recollect where I got the 2672 date from.
As for lines of descent, the Grikath does appear to be a descendent of the Jalthi. its easy to envisage an intermediate model (while Blair was trapped on the Space Station) which is a six-laser Jalthi with a rear turret. Then the six lasers get replaced by three neutron guns (Have you ever flown a Jalthi? It can be done by taking one of the Dralthi missions in Crusade and using an editor program to replace the Dralthi with a Jalthi - I found it virtually impossible to hit something with all six lasers; normally the choice is to hit with either the port three or starboard three). Then the airframe gets cleaned up to give the Grikath.
We can trace the Gratha to Jalkehi the same way; first add a rear turret (modifying the engine arrangements aft) then change the forward guns and finally reverse the sweep of the wings (perhaps adding the turret caused a cg problem?) Again, we can postulate an intermediate that would appear in a WC1.5 by giving a Gratha a rear turret but leaving the rest intact.
Thinking about pr-2 last night, it occurred to me that assuming the Trisystem is one of the Border World groups does resolve some of the problems there. We can also accommodate the travel problem by assuming its like Firekka in that the main jump points are supplemented by a large number of mini-jump points.
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
Well apart from the name similarity, the Jalkehi's weapon's loadout with its four lasers and one particle is way more similiar to 4 lasers and two neutrons than 3 neutrons are. I admit, there are no big similarities between the Gratha and the Grikath but neither see I any between the Gratha and the Jalkehi (except that they are both the longest and second-heaviest):
Jalkehi: Nose mounted guns (5)
6 exhaust ports
Curved shaped, bent down wings
fat
Gratha: Wing mounted guns (4)
2 exhaust ports
rather straight wings
sleek
They both have a totally different gun loadout.
But,of course, that's just my opinion. Everything is imaginable.
Jalkehi: Nose mounted guns (5)
6 exhaust ports
Curved shaped, bent down wings
fat
Gratha: Wing mounted guns (4)
2 exhaust ports
rather straight wings
sleek
They both have a totally different gun loadout.
But,of course, that's just my opinion. Everything is imaginable.
WildWeasel
Spaceman
Or they could all be completely different fighters that have no relation to each other, despite their similarities.
Fighters
They could be; but its fun to try and work out a logical progression of design families. Most real-world designs build on ones that have gone before so its not entirely outrageous to try to look for links. Unfortunately, if we go by appearances, the closest resemblance to a Gratha is the USAF B-1 bomber.
Assuming that Gratha did evolve into Jalkehi what are the steps and why? The original Gratha armament is two lasers and two mass drivers. Now, the problem here would be that the two guns have different ranges reducing firepower concentration (arguably, the Kilrathi also like to fire at longer ranges, hence their concentration on lasers in WC1) . So a Gratha Upgrade may look at giving the pilots what they want - ie increased long-range firepower. To do that, the designers might well replace the two mass drivers with a pair of lasers - but while that gives four long-range guns, the loss in total firepower is worrying. So the designers add a belly-mounted particle cannon (also long range) and we have the Product-Improved Gratha armament. So thats phase One (PIG-1).
Now, Confed Fighters have a field day by sitting behind the clumsy Kilrathi heavy fighters and chewing them apart. Thats one reason for a tail turret. The other is the arrival of torpedoes - turrets are necessray for self-defense while doing a torpedo attack. So the PIG-1 Gratha needs a tail turret. The problem is the engines are in the tail position. So the existing pair of large engines are replaced by a cluster of outboard smaller ones (of same total thrust) with the cleared space between housing the turret, Thats Phase 2 (Gratha PIG-2).
Now if we look at the result, we've added a lot of weight aft which is going to shift the cg aft, making the craft difficult to control. So to shift the cg forward we reverse the sweep-back of the wings to forward-sweep, that shifts the cg back again. Add a pair of canards forward and we're there. Thats Product-Improved Gratha phase three (PIG-3). At that point so little is left of the original design, it gets a new name, Jalkehi.
Now there is some slight evidence for the PIG-2 stage in that one of the books mentions a torpedo fighter called the Graxa. That could conform to PIG-2. False Colors mentions the Gratha as a forward C4I ship (basically an equivalent of the real-world E-2C) and that is real hard to square with WC1. I don't like Forstchen as an author anyway (I find his constant harping on the idiotic brainless Confed government irritating).
They could be; but its fun to try and work out a logical progression of design families. Most real-world designs build on ones that have gone before so its not entirely outrageous to try to look for links. Unfortunately, if we go by appearances, the closest resemblance to a Gratha is the USAF B-1 bomber.
Assuming that Gratha did evolve into Jalkehi what are the steps and why? The original Gratha armament is two lasers and two mass drivers. Now, the problem here would be that the two guns have different ranges reducing firepower concentration (arguably, the Kilrathi also like to fire at longer ranges, hence their concentration on lasers in WC1) . So a Gratha Upgrade may look at giving the pilots what they want - ie increased long-range firepower. To do that, the designers might well replace the two mass drivers with a pair of lasers - but while that gives four long-range guns, the loss in total firepower is worrying. So the designers add a belly-mounted particle cannon (also long range) and we have the Product-Improved Gratha armament. So thats phase One (PIG-1).
Now, Confed Fighters have a field day by sitting behind the clumsy Kilrathi heavy fighters and chewing them apart. Thats one reason for a tail turret. The other is the arrival of torpedoes - turrets are necessray for self-defense while doing a torpedo attack. So the PIG-1 Gratha needs a tail turret. The problem is the engines are in the tail position. So the existing pair of large engines are replaced by a cluster of outboard smaller ones (of same total thrust) with the cleared space between housing the turret, Thats Phase 2 (Gratha PIG-2).
Now if we look at the result, we've added a lot of weight aft which is going to shift the cg aft, making the craft difficult to control. So to shift the cg forward we reverse the sweep-back of the wings to forward-sweep, that shifts the cg back again. Add a pair of canards forward and we're there. Thats Product-Improved Gratha phase three (PIG-3). At that point so little is left of the original design, it gets a new name, Jalkehi.
Now there is some slight evidence for the PIG-2 stage in that one of the books mentions a torpedo fighter called the Graxa. That could conform to PIG-2. False Colors mentions the Gratha as a forward C4I ship (basically an equivalent of the real-world E-2C) and that is real hard to square with WC1. I don't like Forstchen as an author anyway (I find his constant harping on the idiotic brainless Confed government irritating).
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Variants of the Grikath and the Jalkehi were both in service in 2654, though...
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
They show up on the Wing Commander Academy TV show.
WildWeasel
Spaceman
Re: Fighters
Wow. What's wrong with Academy?
Wow. What's wrong with Academy?