Space sim games (SW Episode II Spoilers)

Originally posted by junior
Dooku is a villian no matter how you look at it.
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Good and evil are unquantifiable abstracts, not absolutes.

Originally posted by Frosty
Poor excuse. Yoda was toying with him as a demonstration of his superiority. Dooku got the message and fled as soon as he got the chance.
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Yoda didn't look too superior struggling to move that random heavy metal object from crushing Obi-Wan and Anakin when it would be easier to pull or push them out of the way and jump back into the fray against Dooku.

Do I think that Dooku is as powerful as Yoda in the Force?Probably not... but I think he's Yoda's equal with a saber.

Originally posted by Frosty
That's my whole point. Neither Yoda nor Obi-Wan was attempting to kill their opponent, and it's unfair to both of them to assume that because the bad guys ran away like a little girl with a skinned knee, their must be their equals.
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It's also unfair to assume that since Dooku and Jango didn't die, that Yoda and Obi-Wan are better. While I can let the Yoda/Dooku fight lie as sterile conjecture, Obi-Wan got rocked pretty hard by Jango's skills as a bounty hunter. Obi-Wan rarely called on he Force to assist him in his fight and when he did it was pretty much for a jump kick, calling his lightsaber back (which failed) and saving his ass from taking a deep sea dive. Jango, without the Force, just whipped him with all sorts of badassness.
 
Stress of running a galaxy with a bungling bureaucracy will do that to you. :) But really he is dying, same as everyone else. Just... faster.
 
Originally posted by LeHah
Yoda didn't look too superior struggling to move that random heavy metal object from crushing Obi-Wan and Anakin when it would be easier to pull or push them out of the way and jump back into the fray against Dooku.

Obi-Wan got rocked pretty hard by Jango's skills as a bounty hunter...Jango, without the Force, just whipped him with all sorts of badassness.
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First point: Maybe Yoda didn't want to complicate any injuries his fallen colleagues had sustained by using the Force on them. Shifting the column was perhaps the safest way where the younger Jedi were concerned.

Second point: It can be argued that Obi Wan was doing the buttkicking. That was my impression. Although I didn't keep count I'm fairly sure Obi Wan landed more hits than Jango did. Hmmm I don't actually think Jango's all that smart. Choosing to get into close quarters fights with the Jedi is a really bad idea - as he found out towards the end of the movie...
 
Originally posted by Penguin
First point: Maybe Yoda didn't want to complicate any injuries his fallen colleagues had sustained by using the Force on them. Shifting the column was perhaps the safest way where the younger Jedi were concerned.
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Jedi are able to "Reduce Injury" for lack of a better term (lifted from the WEG SW RPG manual). This is why Luke or Vader are able to continue moving around and talking after their hands are cut off. It means that they're still mortally wounded but that they can remain in a "Wounded-only" state for a certain period of time.

And considering Anakin loses an arm, I think being pushed or pulled 10-15 feet in any direction wouldn't matter much.

Second point: It can be argued that Obi Wan was doing the buttkicking. That was my impression. Although I didn't keep count I'm fairly sure Obi Wan landed more hits than Jango did. Hmmm I don't actually think Jango's all that smart. Choosing to get into close quarters fights with the Jedi is a really bad idea - as he found out towards the end of the movie...
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Obi-Wan did do a fine job of kicking ass and taking names, I'll be the first to agree. But considering he faught a non-Force user and fell off the side of a landing platform shows that maybe it wasn't the best day to get into a fight.

Personally, I'd rather get into a close quarter combat fight with a disarmed Jedi. They have this tendency to throw things across the room at you and deflect blaster bolts when you're shooting at them. We've never really seen one get down and dirty with the punching, have we?

I don't think you could compare Mace Windu to Obi-Wan Kenobi. Mace is not only a master, but the master swordsman of the Council. I think Jango was a little desperate and a little stupid to try and fight him, but hey, if you don't know not to screw with Sammy J, you get what you deserve...
 
Originally posted by LeHah
Personally, I'd rather get into a close quarter combat fight with a disarmed Jedi. They have this tendency to throw things across the room at you and deflect blaster bolts when you're shooting at them. We've never really seen one get down and dirty with the punching, have we?
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You see some kicking an punching in Obi-Wan Vs JAngo Fett fight
With that Kung-Fu Force kick of Obi-wan on Jango chest
 
Dis-armed jedi? Didn't that happen to Anakin in episode II.

Badam Ching.

Ok Ok OK, you don't have to groan so loudly.
 
Originally posted by LeHah

Personally, I'd rather get into a close quarter combat fight with a disarmed Jedi. They have this tendency to throw things across the room at you and deflect blaster bolts when you're shooting at them. We've never really seen one get down and dirty with the punching, have we?

I don't think you could compare Mace Windu to Obi-Wan Kenobi. Mace is not only a master, but the master swordsman of the Council. I think Jango was a little desperate and a little stupid to try and fight him, but hey, if you don't know not to screw with Sammy J, you get what you deserve...
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What I meant was that Jango shouldn't have gotten into a fight with any Jedi. As well as doing the stuff you listed they can do Force Push and probably some other things that I haven't heard of. That's why I think its a really bad idea to get within arms reach of a Jedi.
With regards to Obi Wan he should've gotten straight into his spaceship, took off and then fired one of those missiles at the landing pad. That would've fragged Obi Wan for sure and Jango wouldn't have risked his life.
As for Windu, Jango probably wanted revenge for being held hostage (albeit for a minute or two), but jumping in between several hundred Jedi and battle droids blasting the crap out of each other - that's worse than stupid. Particularly since Jango's a competent sniper...
 
Originally posted by Penguin
What I meant was that Jango shouldn't have gotten into a fight with any Jedi. As well as doing the stuff you listed they can do Force Push and probably some other things that I haven't heard of. That's why I think its a really bad idea to get within arms reach of a Jedi.
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Well, the only time I've noticed a Jedi using the Force to push someone is from across the room or at some sizeable distance.
We've never seen a Jedi get real up-close before this fight.

Originally posted by Penguin
With regards to Obi Wan he should've gotten straight into his spaceship, took off and then fired one of those missiles at the landing pad. That would've fragged Obi Wan for sure and Jango wouldn't have risked his life.
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Considering Jango was just getting into Slave-1, Obi-Wan's fighter is on another platform at an unknown distance away and that, well, Obi-Wan is a Jedi and generally, no one screws with one, it makes sense that he jumped into the fray.

As for Windu, Jango probably wanted revenge for being held hostage (albeit for a minute or two), but jumping in between several hundred Jedi and battle droids blasting the crap out of each other - that's worse than stupid. Particularly since Jango's a competent sniper...
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Jango also downed a Jedi before Dooku even had a chance or a reason to whip out his saber. Jango knew what he was getting into. I think things would've gone differently and that he'd have lived or even just been maimed had he not been knocked around by that damned dumb beast.

Originally posted by junior
NO!!! Not Dark Empire!
*shudder*

Only topped in sheer horribleness by Dark Empire II.
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What the heck are you talking about? Dark Empire was wonderful. There were a bunch of things far, far worse than DE:
Dark Empire II, Empire's End, Boba Fett: Twin Engines Of Destruction, All the novels except things written by Zahn and Steve Perry's "Shadows Of The Empire", Dark Horse's multiple spin-off series and dumbass character tie-in comics.

Dark Empire was the seedy, desperate side of Star Wars. It was very much in the same vein as Metal Hurlant (known as Heavy Metal in the United States), thick with alien worlds and beautiful character designs. It shows how used and run down the galaxy is and just how powerful a Jedi must be to truely defeat the Dark Side.
 
Originally posted by LeHah

What the heck are you talking about? Dark Empire was wonderful. There were a bunch of things far, far worse than DE:
Dark Empire II, Empire's End, Boba Fett: Twin Engines Of Destruction, All the novels except things written by Zahn and Steve Perry's "Shadows Of The Empire", Dark Horse's multiple spin-off series and dumbass character tie-in comics.
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So I take it you're not too fond of the New Jedi Order series?
 
Originally posted by Penguin
Maybe Yoda didn't want to complicate any injuries his fallen colleagues had sustained by using the Force on them.
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Actually, I was thinking along those lines too. In between trying to slog through two assignments. :)

Originally posted by Penguin
It can be argued that Obi Wan was doing the buttkicking. That was my impression. Although I didn't keep count I'm fairly sure Obi Wan landed more hits than Jango did. Hmmm I don't actually think Jango's all that smart.
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Aside from the bit where he shot the Jedi going after Dooku after the gladiator battle (and perhaps the part where he kills Zam), I didn't think Jango was all that flash. I was certainly more impressed with the more mature Obi-Wan we saw.

Originally posted by LeHah
We've never really seen [a Jedi] get down and dirty with the punching, have we?
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True. I was actually impressed with the hand-to-hand combat put up by Obi-Wan instead of the usual lightsabring and Force-pushing, etc.

Originally posted by jammyo2k
Yoda just has the walking stick to claim disability benefits.
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Heh, heh. :)

Originally posted by Penguin
...but jumping in between several hundred Jedi and battle droids blasting the crap out of each other - that's worse than stupid. Particularly since Jango's a competent sniper...
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I thought it was pretty silly too...

Originally posted by LeHah
There were a bunch of things far, far worse than DE: Dark Empire II, Empire's End, Boba Fett: Twin Engines Of Destruction, All the novels except things written by Zahn and Steve Perry's "Shadows Of The Empire", Dark Horse's multiple spin-off series and dumbass character tie-in comics.
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This is your opinion... but I'm surprised you didn't explicity mention the Jedi Academy trilogy - I first heard about the crazy Emperor resurrection idea there.
 
Blueclaw: I said, all the novels except Zahn's and Steve Perry's...

Wedge: I thought my already verbose hatred of Kevin J Anderson was well known on here already...
 
Originally posted by Wedge009
This is your opinion... but I'm surprised you didn't explicity mention the Jedi Academy trilogy - I first heard about the crazy Emperor resurrection idea there.
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The "crazy Emperor resurrection idea" is actually from Dark Empire. That, the trashed Mon Calamari homeworld, and the Holocron, that are all found in the Jedi Academy books, are all elements that came from Dark Empire.
Personally, I thought that Dark Empire was an okay story, but the simple fact of the matter was that I didn't think it fit with Star Wars. With both Dark Empires, I got the impression that the writer was just showing off his or her skills (can't remember who the writer was, let alone if it was a man or woman writing it - probably a guy, though, given the industry) without regard to the fact that it was part of a larger whole.
Admittedly, though, the vast majority of the books seem to have that difficulty, as well.
And I will concede that there may very well be worse things than that out there. My reading is limited to Zahn's novels stuff (and a short story he wrote for WEG's Star Wars Journal detailing the meeting of Karde and Mara), both Dark Empires, the Jedi Academy, and the first NJO book.
 
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