Some sunshine & a few general questions...
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Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
If there's a connection, I've yet to find it. The only connection I've found is that all three are Kilrathi-held... nothing else has stood up to theory (Valgard and Hhallas are fairly large jump hubs... but K'sK'taq is just the opposite. I tried marking them all off on an original WCU map, and saw nothing unusual about their arrangement...
What we know about the systems:
* Hhallas was the boyhood home of Ralgha nar Hhallas ("Hobbes"). The emperor established his forward 'offworld' palace at a starbase in the Hhallas system after K'Tithrak Mang fell in 2667.
* Valgard was the next to last system through which the Tiger's Claw chased the KIS Sivar during Operation Thor's Hammer. Tiger's Claw pilots, including then Lt. Col. Blair and Major Michael Casey ("Iceman" - Casey from WCP's dad) engaged and destroyed the last of her cruiser escort and support ships in the Valgard System.
* K'sK'taq does not show up outside of the WCU Map included in Prophecy.
So, you're welcome to figure out a connection based on that information (G)
I don't really have a stance on the validity of that particular 'lost' fiction - but if Johnny is still around I'd certainly be interested to see what he has to say about it.
(And I'm willing to bet that the mushroom refers to the Kraken-class ship killer...)
Capn Johnny
Cap'n Johnny
Kraken? Mushroom? Never heard it called that before.. Applecore, yes.. and one other nickname.. possibly best not mentioned in mixed company..
As for that bit of "lost" fiction about the bugs.. hmm.. the only thing I could think of is that it might have been a loose lead-in with what were thinking of doing for "Shadow Force" (one of the last WC projects before the team was completely disembowled)... but my memory ain't what it used to be..
-J
As for that bit of "lost" fiction about the bugs.. hmm.. the only thing I could think of is that it might have been a loose lead-in with what were thinking of doing for "Shadow Force" (one of the last WC projects before the team was completely disembowled)... but my memory ain't what it used to be..
-J
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
(It was the piece Boomer posted to awgc right before WCSO started -- that met with... some disapproval... from the development team guys. At the time I think we all expected it to show up in the Week 7 fiction or somesuch, but it just kind of faded away until Chris and I remembered to DejaGoogle for it.)
Capn Johnny
Cap'n Johnny
..Boomer..
-J
-J
X_FIREFALCON
Spaceman
Hmmm...
Hmmmm...
Well, thanks for your input as always, guys. Looks like a few loose ends here, though, that aren't really easy to piece together...I'll have to give it some more thought, I guess.
LOAF, thanks for the background on those three sectors...I'll consider the information you gave as I ponder the question of how these things all relate...
Johnny, if anything else pops into your mind, please tack it on to the end of this thread if you would be so kind. I'd like to hear any more information related to the Nephilim or the period after Prophecy and SO no matter how small or potentially irrelevant it might be; it might help to iron out the kinks.
Thanks again, fellas.
- FireFalcon ~};^
Hmmmm...
Well, thanks for your input as always, guys. Looks like a few loose ends here, though, that aren't really easy to piece together...I'll have to give it some more thought, I guess.
LOAF, thanks for the background on those three sectors...I'll consider the information you gave as I ponder the question of how these things all relate...
Johnny, if anything else pops into your mind, please tack it on to the end of this thread if you would be so kind. I'd like to hear any more information related to the Nephilim or the period after Prophecy and SO no matter how small or potentially irrelevant it might be; it might help to iron out the kinks.
Thanks again, fellas.
- FireFalcon ~};^
X_FIREFALCON
Spaceman
A couple MORE questions...
So I was finally thinking through how I wanted to start this story I'm planning to work on....and then it dawned on me - LOAF referred to one of the Nephilim aliens as "Warlord." So then the question sprung to mind - is there an official known Nephilim heirarchy I should know about? What about the grand poobah(s) of the Nephilim? I've heard references to "hives"...we know they're insects...are we to assume there's some kind of "queen" somewhere maybe?
Pass along any facts and theories you fellas have on this (of course, indicate which category they fall under, but I'll accept both right now).
As always, thanks.
- FireFalcon ~};^
So I was finally thinking through how I wanted to start this story I'm planning to work on....and then it dawned on me - LOAF referred to one of the Nephilim aliens as "Warlord." So then the question sprung to mind - is there an official known Nephilim heirarchy I should know about? What about the grand poobah(s) of the Nephilim? I've heard references to "hives"...we know they're insects...are we to assume there's some kind of "queen" somewhere maybe?
Pass along any facts and theories you fellas have on this (of course, indicate which category they fall under, but I'll accept both right now).
As always, thanks.
- FireFalcon ~};^
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Here's the segment on the Nephilim from Syd Mead's art book: https://www.wcnews.com/news/update/3772
What he calls a 'worker' is the normal Nephilim pilot, what he calls a Lieutenant is the 'Warlord' and what he calls a queen is (presumably) the 'mother creature'.
(In the game, the Warlords are the slightly more complex looking ones who fly Devil Rays and interact with Blair.)
What he calls a 'worker' is the normal Nephilim pilot, what he calls a Lieutenant is the 'Warlord' and what he calls a queen is (presumably) the 'mother creature'.
(In the game, the Warlords are the slightly more complex looking ones who fly Devil Rays and interact with Blair.)
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Dyret
Super Carrot!
X_FIREFALCON said:So I was finally thinking through how I wanted to start this story I'm planning to work on....and then it dawned on me - LOAF referred to one of the Nephilim aliens as "Warlord." So then the question sprung to mind - is there an official known Nephilim heirarchy I should know about? What about the grand poobah(s) of the Nephilim? I've heard references to "hives"...we know they're insects...are we to assume there's some kind of "queen" somewhere maybe?
Pass along any facts and theories you fellas have on this (of course, indicate which category they fall under, but I'll accept both right now).
As always, thanks.
- FireFalcon ~};^
I would really love to see the nephilim queen(s). They would probably look something like the gargoyle queen in Ultima IX.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Dyret said:
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X_FIREFALCON
Spaceman
Hmmm...
As always, thanks, LOAF.
Just one question here - in the article you forwarded me to, it seems to indicate the presence of multiple queens...unless I'm completely off (I'm going on about 4 hours of sleep thanks to an addiction to play a few more levels of Wing Commander 3 last night/this morning - how's THAT for commitment?!). Any thoughts on the multiple queen idea?
Should we view the bugs as something similar to ants, in that there are perhaps many hives with various queens, and some of these hives work together while some war with one another (like black & red ants, for those of you who have played "SimAnt")?
Or should we go with the one queen, all unified under her, mentality? I guess this might be a point where artistic creativity could take over...maybe Confed/Kilrathi space was only invaded by one of many hives or something?
Thanks for the pictures as well...helps put things in perspective a tad. Are there similar artistic renderings of the pilots and warlords somewhere, per chance? There's only a brief glimpse of the Warlord in the game, I think, and you only ever get to see the pilots' heads.
- FireFalcon ~};^
As always, thanks, LOAF.
Just one question here - in the article you forwarded me to, it seems to indicate the presence of multiple queens...unless I'm completely off (I'm going on about 4 hours of sleep thanks to an addiction to play a few more levels of Wing Commander 3 last night/this morning - how's THAT for commitment?!). Any thoughts on the multiple queen idea?
Should we view the bugs as something similar to ants, in that there are perhaps many hives with various queens, and some of these hives work together while some war with one another (like black & red ants, for those of you who have played "SimAnt")?
Or should we go with the one queen, all unified under her, mentality? I guess this might be a point where artistic creativity could take over...maybe Confed/Kilrathi space was only invaded by one of many hives or something?
Thanks for the pictures as well...helps put things in perspective a tad. Are there similar artistic renderings of the pilots and warlords somewhere, per chance? There's only a brief glimpse of the Warlord in the game, I think, and you only ever get to see the pilots' heads.
- FireFalcon ~};^
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
It's certainly reasonable, in my opinion. If the entire Nephilim had a single, all-important queen/Mother Creature then it opens you up to a all-too-easy "single desperate strike wins everything by cutting off the head" sort of story... and evolution shouldn't work like that, anyway.
Here's the Warlord:
and here's the 'Worker'/Pilot:
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Bandit LOAF said:
Isn't that exactly how the Confederation defeated the Kilrathi?
Anyway, I would think that the Nephilim would be made up of clans, each one having its own Queen/Mother Creature, and one clan being domniant over the others (a "royal" clan). It could be that the "warlords" are members of this "royal" clan as opposed to simply being an elite caste shared by all clans.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I guess it's worth noting that the taunts refer to 'the' Mother Creature... though that's not necessarily saying much - if I talk about 'the' president, everyone knows I'm talking about my country's president.
Dyret
Super Carrot!
Ijuin said:Isn't that exactly how the Confederation defeated the Kilrathi?
Anyway, I would think that the Nephilim would be made up of clans, each one having its own Queen/Mother Creature, and one clan being domniant over the others (a "royal" clan). It could be that the "warlords" are members of this "royal" clan as opposed to simply being an elite caste shared by all clans.
Dude! That just like the Skaarj in unreal, hey had many clans with one queen each. Back to topic: All hives would have at least one queen. If not it wouldnt be "hives".
I've finally got my hands on prophecy gold, and finished it in two days.
The only thing that dissapointed me in prophecy was that after the first few missions, There was almost no cinematics before the end. And you couldnt talk to most people in the rec room. Where can i download the fiction viewer for secret ops. And i'm now sure the "mushroom" was the kraken. And the nephilim IS the star gods.
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
To make it more difficult. But the main achievement is that it's more annoying.
Universe explanation might be that, as this is the real invasion unlike WCP, they send in more of their best pilots.
Universe explanation might be that, as this is the real invasion unlike WCP, they send in more of their best pilots.
X_FIREFALCON
Spaceman
As always...
As always, thanks for the quick replies, fellas.
Yeah, the "Mother Creature" reference is a bit thought-provoking. It almost seems that this title would be reserved for the mother of all mothers, but you're right, LOAF - this title could just be individually hive-specific. I'm still trying to decide on how to have the command structure of the Nephilim in my story; I REALLY don't want to have them basically be another version of the Kilrathi complete with its royal guard, emperor, princes, etc. But it also seems like there should be some Nephilim of some special recognition within their ranks...aces that stand out, certain ship captains, and maybe some kind of royalty/commanders.
Part of the potential problem is the mentality of the Nephilim as a whole. Are they meant to be individualistic thinkers, or like any hive, do they do their busy tasks as dictated by some kind of group thought? Would they be like the Kilrathi in that some would wish to defect at some point, or some are not sympathetic to the war? Or would these hives simply be colonies of violent expansionists who know nothing of compassion or peace and universally wish only to conquer? I'm inclined to think the latter thought would be the most likely scenario. But if that's the case, how could there be certain aces or anything that stand out (or aren't there?), if the bulk of the Nephilim are basically just zombie cannon fodder ordered around by a higher mind - either queens or the Mother Creature (assuming these are not one and the same)?
It seems (at least from the games) that the Nephilim are unified in their thoughts...now granted, this may be because we only see advancing military forces as opposed to civilian bugs (if such a thing exists)...but what do you think about what I've said above? Individual thoughts, or more like a group mentality? Are queens and the Mother Creature one and the same entity?
How about the size of the Nephilim? In the segment where Blair is fighting the Warlord at the end, that bug looked like it was about three times his size (if not more). Is that right? Are all the bugs that huge? If so, how do they squeeze into these smaller fighters (or is the pilot caste much smaller)?
And perhaps the most perplexing thought of all...how could the Nephilim be so advanced, their pilots be so skilled, etc. when they don't look like they have opposable thumbs?!
All responses are again always welcome. Thanks, guys.
- FireFalcon ~};^
As always, thanks for the quick replies, fellas.
Yeah, the "Mother Creature" reference is a bit thought-provoking. It almost seems that this title would be reserved for the mother of all mothers, but you're right, LOAF - this title could just be individually hive-specific. I'm still trying to decide on how to have the command structure of the Nephilim in my story; I REALLY don't want to have them basically be another version of the Kilrathi complete with its royal guard, emperor, princes, etc. But it also seems like there should be some Nephilim of some special recognition within their ranks...aces that stand out, certain ship captains, and maybe some kind of royalty/commanders.
Part of the potential problem is the mentality of the Nephilim as a whole. Are they meant to be individualistic thinkers, or like any hive, do they do their busy tasks as dictated by some kind of group thought? Would they be like the Kilrathi in that some would wish to defect at some point, or some are not sympathetic to the war? Or would these hives simply be colonies of violent expansionists who know nothing of compassion or peace and universally wish only to conquer? I'm inclined to think the latter thought would be the most likely scenario. But if that's the case, how could there be certain aces or anything that stand out (or aren't there?), if the bulk of the Nephilim are basically just zombie cannon fodder ordered around by a higher mind - either queens or the Mother Creature (assuming these are not one and the same)?
It seems (at least from the games) that the Nephilim are unified in their thoughts...now granted, this may be because we only see advancing military forces as opposed to civilian bugs (if such a thing exists)...but what do you think about what I've said above? Individual thoughts, or more like a group mentality? Are queens and the Mother Creature one and the same entity?
How about the size of the Nephilim? In the segment where Blair is fighting the Warlord at the end, that bug looked like it was about three times his size (if not more). Is that right? Are all the bugs that huge? If so, how do they squeeze into these smaller fighters (or is the pilot caste much smaller)?
And perhaps the most perplexing thought of all...how could the Nephilim be so advanced, their pilots be so skilled, etc. when they don't look like they have opposable thumbs?!
All responses are again always welcome. Thanks, guys.
- FireFalcon ~};^
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