prisoners, capships, and fighters should be saved

Discussion in 'General Wing Commander Chat' started by Joshua, Dec 4, 2003.

  1. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    There was a Sonic Accelerator Gun in Armada. :)
     
  2. Ein-7919

    Ein-7919 Spaceman

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    Actually, it would be really funny to see a sonic cannon in action in space:

    Test Pilot: Ready to fire the weapon.
    Command: Proceed with test.
    Pilot: Firing...
    Command: Well?
    Pilot: Well, it says I fired it. But nothing is happening.
    Scientist at command: Oh my lord! In space there is no sound! This is amazing! All this time we were hearing explosions of things going off all around us. Not to mention that Panther that flew right over my fighter and I heard its engine roaring! All this time, I must have been making all those sounds myself. Ka-blamo! Bew bew bew...ping bang boom! :D

    Basically, a sonic cannon would work as a ground turret.
     
  3. Eder

    Eder Mr. Standoff

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    Yep. And it always seemed to work ok for me. :D
     
  4. Edfilho

    Edfilho Cry some more!

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    The funny thing is that he takes a BattleTech concept, changes a few names, and when someone exposes him, he says it's not the same thing by creating some nonsense technobabble...

    Kid, all these things aren't real, they're fictional... THE CONCEPT behind those ideas -- i.e.: one armor is better for bullets and the other for lasers -- is what matters, the explanation is imaterial.

    PLEASE STOP SHOWING UP WITH IDEAS FROM GAMES COMPLETELY UNLIKE WC.

    And for chrissakes, saying that only talking to the developer is going to settle the matter is so stupid that it didn't deserve an answer.
     
  5. LeHah

    LeHah 212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"

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    Thing is though lots and lots of other places have those ideas. The Star Wars RPG I played for years had at least a dozen pages of the armor you just described.
     
  6. Delance

    Delance Victory, you say?

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    Maybe it was built by Dr. Sonic.

    You can find diamonds here. Not affiliated with the guy who played Q.
     
  7. Delance

    Delance Victory, you say?

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    Sorry for the double post. Delete this!
     
  8. Delance

    Delance Victory, you say?

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    Allright, this was very stupid of me.
     
  9. Revenant

    Revenant Spaceman

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    LOL.....diamond and crystal armor....capturing rather than killing cats....WTF are these guys on? It's only 10 a.m. man, it's too early to be hitting the crack pipe! Ok, you don't want to have to kill anyone, ummm, last i heard, it's a WAR dumbass! In a war, people DIE! If you don't like the game, then don't play it, and get off the forums... lol

    As far as crystal and diamond armor, i would think cost would be the biggest factor in those armors never seeing the light of day, even if it WERE a perfect universe, and the armor actually did what it was supposed to.

    I laugh my ass off everytime i read a post where people talk about "WC should be this" or Origin should have chnged that". The point is, WC is IMO one of the best game series ever made, any major changes to the game like you two are suggesting, would ruin its fun. If you want a game like the one you're describing, make it yourself. Now, it's obvious everyone is clowning on you both, if I were you, I would stop posting this idiocy. But, if you do continue, just brace yourself, because they're all gonna clown on you again.

    Crystals, diamonds and super glue missiles....lol, i haven'l laughed this hard since the "Blue Collar Comedy Tour" on Comeddy Central.....


    -Revenant
     
  10. RyanCole

    RyanCole Spaceman

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    Revenant, I believe Joshua and I adequately stated reasons why it's much smarter to capture rather than kill prisoners, fighters, & capships. And you're mistaken about the word "war". The word war does not mean lethal conflict. It just means conflict, period. A war could be nothing more than simply words being disputed. Before you post another one of your messages, I suggest you do some dictionary defenition reading of words you're going to use, otherwise you'll just make a fool out of yourself. How would the changes being suggested ruin WC games when the player would not be required to capture prisoners, fighters, and capships, i.e., capturing them would be entirely optional?
     
  11. Sycorax

    Sycorax Spaceman

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    What the hell are we even talking about armor on aerospace craft anyway. I thought the whole point of having stuff capable of flying was to avoid fire, not to see how much you can take. Compared to capships, tanks, Mechs and what have you, aerospace craft really haven't got any armor.
     
  12. Expendable

    Expendable Spaceman

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    Overmortal: He's editing his posts again.

    RyanCole: These ludicrious weapons and such in a hypothetical Wing Commander game would take time and effort to implement. For little gain. Who, besides yourself, Joshua, and a limited number of pacifists would actually bother squirting a hot load of random crap or stick a tow cable on a fighter which is trying to kill them first instead of blasting them at range? These changes would remove valuable dev time from other features, such as a branching campaign, better missions, etc. Hence is the reason we see them as foolish and ludicrious.

    Sycorax: Very true. Shields make up for some of that lack of armor, but the lack is made up in speed and lethality. For that matter, fighters are supposed not to take fire, but to deliver it first.
     
  13. RyanCole

    RyanCole Spaceman

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    Expendable, it wouldn't be for little gain. It would be for tremendous gain as stated in the reasons Joshua & I listed. And remember, there would be many medals of very high honor given out for capturing instead of killing opposing prisoners, fighters, and capships. Campaigns and missions could still be done. How could they not be? According to Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's book "Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill", nonviolent media products receive much higher sales than violent media products. So it would be towards Origins' (or whover) advantage to make such equipment for use.
     
  14. Expendable

    Expendable Spaceman

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    What good are medals if your dead?

    Just think how many pilots will die due to this absurd method of capture instead of destroying enemy fighters.

    Let us take the example of the capture of the U-505 by units of the US Navy. yes, they did capture her successfully. But, that was a very low odd success operation. For, if the Germans had scuttled the U-505 with the Navy boarders aboard, torpedoed the ships involved in the operation, had her deck guns manned and shot up the raiders, etc...
    Those raider's medals were well deserved. But, if you try to capture any old 'Cat or 'Bug that you run into, theres gonna be a lot of unlucky saps who get blown up one way or another.

    Who the hell is "Lt. Col." Dave Grossman? Why is he in the military if he promotes this nonviolence crap? Why has he made the military a career if he abhors violence?

    Perhaps, he is a hypocrite...

    EDIT:
    Then, with all those saps who go and lose their fighters, CapShips, etc., Confed will have lost numerous resources. Each fighter costs several hundred million, each CapShip costs several billion at the minimum. Just think, TCS Concordia runs into a 'Cat Fralthra, powered down. They don't respond to hails. According to you, the logical thing is to attach cables to the Fralthra, leaving the Concordia vulnerable due to slow speed and distracted crew.

    Then:
    A) Fralthra activates self-destruct. No more Concordia.
    B) Ambush. Hundreds of arakh'd up Kilra'hra eat the boarding marines then blow up the ship. Or take over Concordia.
    C) Fralthra powers up. The whole power down was a ruse, just like those "helpless" Jalthi that slaughter those 2 Tiger's Claw pilots in "Claw Marks".
    D) Numerous other ways to die. Whatever. No more Concordia, or at best, a highly damaged Concordia.

    Hence, if Confed had done this tactic you are so obsessed about, sure there would have been a lot of medals handed out, most of them posthumous, but there also would have been Prince Thrakhath eating the Confed President, humanity's enslavement, and such fun acts like that.

    Bah, to you, your hypocritical leader "Colonel", and your paint gun.

    I say, nuke the Cats till they glow. And then some.
     
  15. overmortal

    overmortal Bearded Person

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    Y'know, I've had many a great laugh at some of the ideas that have come across, but those days are dwindling to a close. This stupid stuff is getting really old. I'm about to "morph" into 'Psych' mode, and I think even Psych will agree that there's only room for one of him on this board.

    Speaking of which, someone release him from his cage. I'd love to see him put a stop to some of this.
     
  16. psych

    psych Destroyer of assclowns

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    Can't really rip him apart for long posts now. I'm hard at work with my to-be-unvealed Christmas gift to the WC community, real-life holiday stuff, and attending a funeral for my french teacher from high school, and until Thursday, it's do-or-die time.

    I'll deal with him later.
     
  17. t.c.cgi

    t.c.cgi Vice Admiral

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    Go away you filthy communist. :(
     
  18. Haesslich

    Haesslich Spaceman

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    Ahem. Since you've repeatedly ignored other posts pointing out the difficulties of such attempts, and the ones stating what little gain you get for taking these huge risks, let me repeat them again. In order.

    1) We can and DO capture prisoners, but rarely do so in space, and usually only manage it in ground engagements where the immediate environment isn't as lethal as hard vacuum and weapons aren't generally as devastating in their effect. However, the Kilrathi have the Codices which state, for the most part, that capture is a disgrace and it is generally better to suicide than it is to risk being humiliated in this fashion. This makes it difficult to fight and board an enemy ship, since they can blow the whole damned thing up and should do so, to deny the enemy any opportunity to gain valuable intelligence from the ship or crew.

    2) War is conflict, yes. This is why such games are not considered peaceful, and why your throwing in a reference to another book about violent games makes no sense. Stop contradicting yourself - and remember the lethal environment in which space battles occur. You're using high-powered weapons more likely to explode or otherwise destroy a target than not, at least when it comes to fighter-scaled targets. Also, any hits that would puncture the hull are more than likely to be lethal to the crews within, even if they're armored against vacuum - all it takes is one hit with a particle cannon and you've got flash-frozen dehydrated Kitty Flambe a la gamma-ray bath.

    3) "Wars of words" or propaganda are not stand-alone things which occur independently of other methods of 'warfare', and often support physical actions or justify them (look towards psychological operations). If it's only 'with words', then you've got a debate or a heated ideological conflict and not a war, which implies physical force and violence.

    4) I'd suggest you actually read the responses, and then address them before telling others to read the dictionary. You fail to refute any of the arguments handed to you, instead choosing to rewrite what you've posted in an effort to look less idiotic.. and only making things worse. Examples being an actual tow cable when we have tractor beams, and paintball guns when we've got leech technology that'll actually DISABLE a ship.

    5) You don't usually give medals to dead people, unless they REALLY did something impressive and succeeded in doing so. Capturing ships, while theoretically possible, gains one little if you're talking about fighters, unless they've got some really neat technology like cloaking. Capital ships can be targets for capture if they've got intelligence you need, such as battle plans, though it tends to be difficult enough that most of our WC missions ended up being 'blow ship X up' due to this. Remember, unless you can incapacitate the crew or ship immediately, they can trigger a self-destruct to keep the apes from getting their hands on some technology... even as they let them board, or are boarded, and kill whole squads of Marines.

    6) As noted in earlier posts, a Kilrathi who is captured is disgraced. While we've been able to keep some of them alive, for one reason or another, many Kilrathi warriors who are more fanatical about the Cult of Sivar will choose to commit zu'kara (ritual suicide). Even ones who aren't that horribly fanatical, like Kirha, ended up doing so when they felt there was nothing left for them.

    7) Again, given that these are -space war simulations-, it's rather nonsensical to expect a solo pilot to board a Kilrathi capship himself to take it over... or, for that matter, expect the game to be non-violent. You STILL have to board the ship, and then kill the crew or hurt them till they stop fighting. It's like drinking booze for temperance, or killing cows to save them from being sent to the slaughterhouse; they tend to be mutually exclusive objectives. Beyond which, we've been training our kids to kill for centuries now - remember that toy weapons are NOT a new phenomenon, and indeed some religions and cultures (Western culture included) justify and enshrine the warrior ethos through indoctrinating children into the cult of weapons. That Grossman figure probably clammored for a toy gun to play Cowboys and Indians with, just like anyone else at his age... and he isn't a cold-hearted raving sociopath, is he?

    Think before posting. This is something both you and Joshua fail to do, and I am starting to suspect that you two are the same person... one trying to look more intelligent by creating his own supporters. It wasn't even a good effort - both of you repeated the same mindless points without considering other arguments in any depth.
     
  19. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    It's neat that someone actually managed to take a thread about sonic cannons in space and make it significantly stupider.
     
  20. Edfilho

    Edfilho Cry some more!

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    It takes some industrial strength stupidity.
     

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