prisoners, capships, and fighters should be saved

Discussion in 'General Wing Commander Chat' started by Joshua, Dec 4, 2003.

  1. Joshua

    Joshua Spaceman

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    Capships, prisoners, & fighters should be saved
    Greetings everyone, my name is Joshua Harrington.
    If you think about it, it's much more intelligent to save opposing capships, fish, and prisoners. The United States Central Intelligence Agency would totally agree with this. Why do you ask is it important to save prisoners, capships, & fish? Well, let's look at the following reasons:


    PRISONERS
    They can be used against opposing forces to get other opposing forces to surrender. It's more likely that prisoners can
    They can be interrogated for intelligence gathering purposes.
    They can be used as hosts.
    They can be used to fight opposing units (some prisoners might defect and team up with those that capture them -- I think this is an option in WCIV where you get to assist some Confeds that want to defect).
    They can be traded for equipment, information, hostages, or other things/personnel.
    They can show that diplomacy is possible. It's likely the Kilrathi would never have attacked Confed had the Kilrathi known that Confed would've been so willing to team up with them against the Mantu.

    FIGHTERS & CAPSHIPS
    They can be salvaged for parts. Throughout history, the United States has been known to salvage captured stuff. George Washington had salvaged cannons his forces captured from the British. Only a stupid fool would want to pass on salvaging anything he/she could.
    They can be used for covert operations. An opposing unit is less likely to fire on a unit if it looks like a friendly. So it would have been more intelligent to have entered Kilrah with the T-bo using a Kilrathi fighter than a Confed fighter.
    They can be used as decoys. What's the point of having your own units shot up when you can use the partially damaged fighters/capships you captured as decoys?
    They can be used to cause command disruptions -- it doesn't look good in the commander's eyes when the fighter/capships under control of a subordinate is captured -- it looks like the subordinate has betrayed the commander by giving away stuff to opposing person (you).
    They can be used for more patrolling, more missions, and more fun.
    They can be used for reconnaisance -- an opposing unit (such as a Kilrathi) is less likely to fire on a friendly looking unit (such as a Kilrathi spacecraft you captured).
    They can have their information databases researched for intelligence gathering purposes.
    They can humiliate commanders -- it doesn't look good to subordinates if commanders's spacecraft were captured -- it makes the commanders look stupid and/or like the commanders only started the war to get rid of undesirable people -- this can cause subordinates to rebel against the commanders.
    They can be used to escort other units such as the Tiger's Claw.

    I myself would love to see the WC games remade so that players are given the option to salvage all fighters and capships and be able to use them if they want. It would be cool to have all those Dorkirs, Ralaris, and Fralthis we attack become captured so we can have them escort the Tiger's Claw. A few players might think that both Confed & the Kilrathi would have to agree to take prisoners whenever possible, but I disagree. I see no reason why both sides have to agree take prisoners. Also, I doubt that many of the Kilrathi would've committed suicide. From my read of the novels, it seems like the Kilrathi would've been willing to be taken prisoner as opposed to have committed suicide -- the "die with honor" routine didn't go well with Kilrathi -- in Heart of the Tiger or Fleet Action, the Emperor told Thrakhath how that many of the Kilrathi weren't buying the "die with honor" belief. George Washington had taken many prisoners during the American Revolution.
     
  2. Dralthi5

    Dralthi5 Spaceman

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    You have good points, man. Except let's hope they never remake a WC game. Maybe if they ever get around to making a new one, such non-lethal options would be interesting.
     
  3. Jason_Ryock

    Jason_Ryock Vice Admiral

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    Just thought I'd point out two things. First, it's much easier to blow the hell out of something then to disable it (though we do have the Leech missile).

    Secondly the last US Capture of an Enemy Vessel was WWII and it was the U-505 (which has been in the news lately). And it was long before that that the last ship fighter whatever was captured.

    It's true that the CIA has a collection of weapons and equipment and is readily procuring more...but you have to remember, we live on earth. to Inflitrate an American into a Russia is a small task compared with putting a Human onto Kilrah undercover. For obvious reasons.

    Eh...I agree with most of your points, but some don't apply to the Kilrathi. They consider it a dishonor to be captured, and don't much care for people who have. Also, the only Kilrathi defector ended up being a traitor. (I'm talking about Hobbes.) From my reading of Freedom Flight it seemed to me that the other (His name was Kirha? Or something?) didn't want to defect but did it because he was ordered to.

    I also find it unlikely the Kilrathi would ever team up with the Terrans, but that's my personal opinion.

    You raise an interesting point with the capture of vessels that makes me wonder if you've read False Colors? The entire premise for the book is the capture and refitting of a Kilrathi carrier, with some of her fighter squadrons on board.

    It would be nice to see Confed doing some of these things, but I think for that to happen there has to be a more gradual escalation to war. Confed, remember, was hanging by a thread during the war. Capturing ships is ceratain preferable to destroying them, but also more time consuming. Imagine your equipped with a set of Leech missiles and several fighters are attacking your carrier. You can chase them away and disable them one by one, or simply rush in and keep them from the carrier.

    Your ideas and theologies are sound. I would like to see them in a new WC Game, a game that pits the Confed against and enemy of equal strength, on equal terms, rather then the hanging by a thread scenario that is so captivating, but also so tiresome.
     
  4. Joshua

    Joshua Spaceman

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    I guess the new WC game could be modified to suit everyone's tastes. I'd like it to be a game that takes the player through the entire Confederation/Kilrathi War and would be based on the WC games already made. I'd like for a new missile to be developed -- the super polymer missile whereas the missile's warhead's super polymers are heated so they don't freeze as soon as the warhead breaks open. I would recommend very simple graphics for each ship & fighter to save on memory. This way more memory could be used for more ships & fighters.
     
  5. Jason_Ryock

    Jason_Ryock Vice Admiral

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    Hell, forget everything I said I wanted in the new WC game.

    The only thing I really want is rightful recognition of SWACs craft and the role they - and electronic warfare - should play in the future of Carrier aviation. But then, I think everyone already knows that would be my desire in any WC game.
     
  6. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    You people make Bob McDob look like Doctor Robert McDob, MD.
     
  7. Filler

    Filler General Graphics Guy

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    George Washington would be proud of Doctor Robert McDob, MD.
     
  8. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    Dr. McDob uses superpolymers to save his patients.

    George Washington invented them.
     
  9. Bob McDob

    Bob McDob Better Health Through Less Flavor

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    Yeah, superpolymers are tricky to deal with. One time I accidently pasted a guy's artery shut. The malpractice suits were astronomical.
     
  10. t.c.cgi

    t.c.cgi Vice Admiral

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    Dr. McDob's thesis was on strippers. That's where his idea for using super polymers first originated... :D
     
  11. WildWeasel

    WildWeasel Spaceman

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    What?
     
  12. Lynx

    Lynx Spaceman

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    I think he's mixing up something with something else; then this statement would make sense.
     
  13. ChanceKell

    ChanceKell Rear Admiral

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    You seem to forget that entire PLANETS defected to ConFed in the middle of the war. Also, don't you remember fighting WITH the Cats during Prophecy? Or Melek hanging out with Blair during WC4?
     
  14. Delance

    Delance Victory, you say?

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    Then you should go play SM, WC2, WC4 and WCP where some Kilrathi team up with terrans. We can left WC3 out because Hobbes was a traitor.
     
  15. LeHah

    LeHah 212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"

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    Why should you since Hobbes is on your side for the first half of the game?
     
  16. Delance

    Delance Victory, you say?

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    To prove a point. We don't even need Hobbes in WC3 to prove that Kilrathi do team up with Confed.
     
  17. LeHah

    LeHah 212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"

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    Hobbes is the Kilrathi defector everyone knows though. You don't need to read the books or anythng to know him.
     
  18. Delance

    Delance Victory, you say?

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    Yeah I know -- and I sources I mentioned were from games.
     
  19. Expendable

    Expendable Spaceman

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    Kilrathi ships would not work well captured in most cases.

    First off, they use a whole different measurement system, so things would be trippy.

    Then, Kats are much bigger than people. So the scale would be a lot larger, such as in Freedom Flight with the Terran techs sitting in chairs much bigger than them, with tailstumps. Plus, in spacecraft, the lack of an ejection seat would be a real big turnoff to most Terran pilots.

    Third, usually they would be able to give off a distress call of some sort. Or at least know that the ship was missing in action. Thus, the Kats would know by the call, along with the IFF that they lost a ship. If they lose a ship, then later on encounter a ship with the same IFF...

    Cat Commander: Look, its a random Fralthra. The IFF says its the Example Fralthra.

    Cat XO: Hmm... I thought they capured the Example Fralthra.

    Cat Commander: By Sivar, you are right. Lets blast it.

    Thats one reason they didn't use the Ras Nik'rha against the Kilrathi. Another is that if you do capture a ship, you want to examine it fully, to know more about the enemy's technology and such.

    That is why the US Navy did not use the U-505 against the Germans/Japanese. Along with the fact that the presence of an enemy looking craft in one's own fleet would pose great identification problems, such as enemy ships masquarading as your own, and friendly units trying to sink what they think an enemy...

    And, Kilrathi fighters/bombers have cameras. Freedom Flight shows us this, with the random Cat freaking out about seeing Hunter in the seat of a Dralthi. So, if some tech forgets to disconnect the camera, another Cat fighter could be able to tell that it wasn't a friendly fighter by hailing the pilot, and seeing that he was Terran.

    Finally, wouldn't a bunch of Cat capital ships escorting a Terran Man o' War be just a little bit suspicious? Especially if the Cat ships weren't trying to pound the Terran ship into scrap durasteel?
     
  20. Joshua

    Joshua Spaceman

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    Confed can compensate for different measuring system.
    Ejection seats could be installed
     

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