Now don't go postal with this

Lucas came up with the name "Coruscant". Ya see, when a writer does a Star Wars novel, every little detail has to be cleared by Lucasfilm Ltd's continuity department. You wanna use a lightsaber underwater? Gotta clear it with them, since they know if it's happened before. Wanna make a new species? Gotta make sure it's not a name used in another sci-fi series and that it doesn't conflict with any other SW stuff.

Zahn asked LF's continutity department "What's the capital of the Galactic Empire?" and they responded with Coruscant. Simple as that.
 
Last time I checked, it was Zahn who invented Coruscant. Ask anyone on RASSM or TFN. There was a little concept art scrapped in 1981 or whatever and then Zahn took the concept of a central megatropolis and expanded on it. Hence everyone's 'wow GL respects Zahn' thing that was flying around circa '98.
 
Dougie doesn't like me. I think I'll have to kill myself now...

Originally posted by Dougie
Agree with Sadic. I think we're all being quite civil and expressing our views, although I don't like Wild Weasel suggesting that those who don't accept is as wrong (it's a matter of opinion so there is no right or wrong).
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You see, now you're misinterpreting what I said. I am not saying that anyone is wrong for having their own opinions. That's just silly. However, there are a few people who think that, just because something makes sense in their minds, their opinions are reason enough to change the way things are in the Wing Commander universe. And, like it or not, that is wrong. :(
 
Originally posted by KrisV
It's been explained, there are two.
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Would anybody care to give me an explanation? Please?

And what about the Tiger Claw? Is it a different ship too?
 
So there are two Iasons, both captained by someone of the same name, both attacked and destroyed by Kilrathi, with 15 years between them.

What sort of pathetic explaination is that?
 
"You see, now you're misinterpreting what I said. I am not saying that anyone is wrong for having their own opinions. That's just silly. However, there are a few people who think that, just because something makes sense in their minds, their opinions are reason enough to change the way things are in the Wing Commander universe. And, like it or not, that is wrong."

But the whole point is that there is no authoritative word on what is and isn't accepted in the WCU. Therefore there is nothing concrete to change and hence no one is right and no one is wrong. What would be wrong is if some people are trying to force their opinions onto other people. I apologise for misinterpteting what you said. Please don't kill yourself, I'd be all bummed.
 
Originally posted by Dougie
So there are two Iasons, both captained by someone of the same name, both attacked and destroyed by Kilrathi, with 15 years between them.

What sort of pathetic explaination is that?
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Oddly enough... coincidences happen in real life. Why would someone expect something different in a fictional universe. Fine, it's a rather large coincidence, but it happens sometimes.

TC
 
Yes it COULD happen, yet it is SO unlikely as that there is next to NO chance that it would happen. Who in their right mind would name a ship Iason, knowing it's namesake was lost all hands in a first contact situation. It would be terrible for morale. People would still be superstitious. That aside, it would be a poignant memorial to the memories of those that died NOT to name another vessel Iason (However many warships are named after previous ships, thats war, not discovery, and not a discovery of SUCH a magnitude).

Think of it this way. Do you know of any cruise liner that has been named *drumroll* TITANIC since 1912? Answer that, then think about what I wrote above!

Posted by me
Legally in the same universe, yes, however it does not have to tie in with the WCU from a literary sense. I suggest it more as an alternative view of the Tiger's Claw. Perhaps an 'alternate' universe. How it COULD have been, but wasn't in the games.

-------------------------------------
Posted by Original Phoenix
So you clearly accept that it's part of the WC universe, yes? The claim that I see being attacked in this discussion is not that the timeline necessarily flows clearly, nor that some assumptions must be made. Rather that because of these things the movie isn't part of the WC universe. That claim in general seems to be the point of the overall discussion; examples of contradictions have been used merely to demonstrate the point.

No I DO NOT clearly accept that its part of the WC universe. It has legal license to be, yet artistically it doesn't need to be. Afterall, the world is full of coversongs, correct? Every cover is a different version of the original. One could look at WCM being a 'cover' of the game. It was Chris Roberts of 1999 making an alternate version of the ideas of Chris Roberts in 1990. People change a lot in a decade. Perhaps he had a different vision on how WC should have been, not what it was.

I prefer to consider it running parallel to the WCU, not intersecting with it.
 
Originally posted by Dougie
Last time I checked, it was Zahn who invented Coruscant. Ask anyone on RASSM or TFN. There was a little concept art scrapped in 1981 or whatever and then Zahn took the concept of a central megatropolis and expanded on it. Hence everyone's 'wow GL respects Zahn' thing that was flying around circa '98.
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Well, ain't that the biggest load of bull I've read in my 20 years. Sorry bud, the Coruscant thing predated the original '77 release of Star Wars. I won't go into the whole schpiel about Lucas writing a 9 part story and him only shooting the middle three (now going back and doing the first three) films.

Fan boards are terrible places to pick up info, Dougie. Any little 9 year old with a tepid imagination can spit out whatever drivel he/she wants. SW is definitely big enough to warrant a lot of BS rumors, I'd say about 95% of whats said is either complete bull or a twist on the real story.

The cityscape of Coruscant is nothing original. It's been around since Sci-Fi has been. Metropolis anyone?

Zahn called up Lucas's continuity department and asked "Give me the basis of the Galactic Government pre-Empire and Empire eras." and they ran to Lucas who gave some scratchy ideas with the word "Um" in it a lot. Zahn took out the "Um"s and used that as a template.

Remember not everything you've read in the comics, novels, etc is what happened. Only Lucas has final say. Boba Fett's past may be a 100 other things than whats suggested, etc.
 
If you REALLY want to get picky about it, theres been numerous accounts that Star Wars infact copied many things off Dune. It actually makes quite a lot of sense.

Then again, all modern loves stories are more or less adaptations of Romeo and Juliet, which in turn would have been an adaptation of something else, probably a mythological story.

I believe that there is only 27 base stories and all our literature comes from variations of these.
 
ARGGGH!!!!!

After painstaking rereading this entire thread, I'm starting to believe I can sum it up in one sentence:

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
I WOULD HVAE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU ONCE AGAIN MY STUPID LITTLE FREND!
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My apologies to LOAF for quoting out of context. ^_^;;;
 
No the cityscape idea is nothing new. However Zahn's adaptation of it was *his* decision. I can't prove that right and and you quite honestly can't prove it's not. However as a self-confessed Star Wars junkie for six years this is what I'd always known as confidently as eggs is eggs. I wish I knew where it came from but unfortunately I cannae remember. If you have evidence pointing otherwise, I'd like to hear it.

Oh and the Iason incident thing.....the word 'coincidence' is truly the lamest explaination I have ever heard (no offense because it's the only one - no in fact it would probably be more plausible to say that handbook is Confed propaganda and thus makes mistake or something). That's like someone trying to fit 'Rebel Assault' into the Star Wars timeline by saying 'oh there were two death stars at the same time.'
 
A transcript of a chat with Tim Zahn:

<TimZahn> The idea of the Imperial Planet was from GL. I merely gave it a name, which he chose to accept. Again, an unexpected honor

you can find this at http://members.tripod.com/~LMS_/transcriptzahn.htm

So I was mostly right. Zahn took the planet mentioned in early ROTJ storyboards and called it Coruscant.

Mmmm does that humble pie taste good?
 
You know, I agree -- it's utterly impossible for two people with the same name to be captain of the Iason. It's as crazy as two people named John Adams or George Bush being president of the United States. Or as impossible as there being more than one mayor of Chicago named Richard Daley. It just can't happen!
 
No, it's like there being two different countries called the United States (a common enough phrase), with presidents of the same name. Come on, this is *such* a reach and you know it. The author of the book said that it's all deliberately meant to be a different story and everything. At least be sensible and discredit the book or something. I suppose you'll suggest that the author of the handbook thought 'hmm I think I'll make another Iason, with the same named captain, and have it destroyed, you know, just as a coincidence' and not 'hmm I'm going to borrow from the game history but adapt it to make it fit with the movie-verse better.'

If you just concede that the 2 Iason thing shows a lack of consideration(sp?) for the game timeline by the makers of the handbook I'll be happy as a pig in stuff.
 
How is it like that at all? It's two people with the same name (possibly related) with the same job. Thus, it's *just* like there being two different presidents with the same name.
 
If it was a different Captain Andropolis (sp?) later posted to the *same* ship, then it would be the same as the Bush thing. However, this is two *totally different ships* which *just happen to have the same name* and *just happen to have the same named captain* and *just happen to be destroyed by Kilrathi in an unprovoked attack under exactly the same circumstances*. That's 3 coincidences. The president of the USA thing is just one coincidence. Therefore it is way less likely than the President of the US analogy.

Maybe you could explain why the Kilrathi look different in the movie as opposed to in the games? The Rapier thing has been explained as being a earlier model (although earlier and later models of the same ship often look vaguely similar, as opposed to totally and utterly different).

It's all well and good that you can explain away the near-insurmountable continuity errors that the movie made assuming it was trying to fit with the games (which I am certain it wasn't), but can't you at least admit that even the handbook wasn't made with the games in mind (because the actual *author* of the book specified otherwise). Why can't you concede this? The *author* said it's deliberately different, are you calling him a liar? Or even unqualified to say that - he *wrote* the flaming thing!
 
But I've always maintained that, based on the commision date in the Handbook, that it *is* the same ship -- rebuilt after it's destruction a la the TCS Lexington in Fleet Action and WCIV novel...

The Rapier isn't later model -- it's a completely different fighter. The Rapier in the movie is the CF-117b Rapier, a hundred year old design. The Rapier in the games is the F-44 Rapier II... the 'II' (Kilrathi Saga Manual) indicates that it's an entirely new fighter called Rapier. (Much like the P-47 Thunderbolt and the A-10 Thunderbolt II aren't related).

The Kilrathi, though, have *always* looked different. They were directly translated big-cats in WC2 (lions, tigers and such, oh my)... they were just strange in WC1 (some cat-like, many in strange metal armor, one with antennas...)... they were sinister, less direct-cat puppets in Wing 3... and they looked like Daggits in WC4 (and to add to the mix, there were pink and green Kilrathi on WCA!).

As for Chris McCubbin -- I honestly do not believe his opinion is more valid than mine... which is to say, it's not particularly valid. He's a great guy, I've met him several times... but he didn't just wake up in the morning ons day and say "Oh, I'll write a book about the WC movie!". He was *contracted* by Digital Anvil/Wing Commander Productions to do the book...

Think about it this way -- if Ellen Guon showed up here and told us we shouldn't really consider Wing Commander 2 part of the Wing Commander Universe, would we listen to her? Of course not -- she wrote the script *because* Origin asked for a story to add to the WC universe.
 
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