Now don't go postal with this

The_Gneech

Spaceman
Originally posted by Frosty
Originally posted by The_Gneech
That's a strange thing for him to say, given that WC1 and WC2 were entirely animated (i.e., drawn from the imagination). If anything, I would think animation would be the easiest way to do a bizarre alien race. If he wanted them to look like chihuahuas on steroids then, all he had to do was draw them that way!
Odd as it may seem to you, it still doesn't really have much affect on the point. The cats look different all the time.
I was just commenting. :) Relax.

-The Gneech
 

Dougie

Spaceman
Okay LOAF. yknow what, believe what you want, but you're in a minority here.

The Lexington, from what I remember, had the implication of a slow death caused by a reactor criticality or something, i.e. not a sudden destruction, which is less likely to leave a carcass. I'm a little sick of this discussion. We all know what is both feasible *and* what Chris Roberts intended.
 

KrisV

Administrator
Originally posted by Dougie
Okay LOAF. yknow what, believe what you want, but you're in a minority here.
The three people who disagree with us and are wrong about this may be very vocal, but that doesn't make them a majority.
 

Ladiesman^

Spaceman
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF

- There's only one Iason -- with two captains of the same name.
- The two incidents occuered in different areas of space.
- The second one occured *DURING THE WAR*... you know, when the Kilrathi routinely blew up things.
Perhaps there was only Iason, and on the longshot someone with the same name picked up command later on. I don't doubt they took place in other areas of place.

My problem is that the second one happens during the war, when "the Kilrathi routinely blew up things". It should be during the war, yes. The year would say that. But then why is it the first time we contact the Kilrathi...again. Did we contact them, start a war, forget about them, contact them again with same ship, then start another war? Seems fishy to me. I think this one can be written off as a terrible inconsistancy.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
I don't like LOAF's explanation that there's two ships and all that, but I'm willing to accept it since we don't have Roberts himself to answer that question. LOAF is as canon as we can get around here.
 

Bob McDob

Better Health Through Less Flavor
Whatever happened to Occam's Razor? You know, the simplest being correct?

[BTW, I really have to know: How many Tiger's Claw(s)are there? Obviously the "Tiger" Claw in the movie is not the same as the one in the game...and then there's the Broadsword, which looks NOTHING like the WCII model, and ditto fo all the Kilrathi ships...I mean, the Dralthi I can understand since it's a common fighter name...but the Snakier?

Can I get an answer here? Please?]

[Edited by Bob McDob on 07-12-2001 at 23:32]
 

Marcml30

Spaceman
Originally posted by Bob McDob
Whatever happened to Occam's Razor? You know, the simplest being correct?
To me, the simplest explanation for the inconsistencies is that the movie was never intended to be a part of the game timeline. While most tv/comic series-turned-movies have made a reasonable attempt at preserving the existing timelines, few do it without at least some inconsistencies. I honestly don't know why the movie has to be considered (canon) either. I don't think that the Xmen(movie),Spiderman(TV & movie),Hulk(TV), series were considered 'canon' even though they obviously received authorization/license from Marvel/DC. They were simply 'based on' the given series.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
BTW, I really have to know: How many Tiger's Claw(s)are there? Obviously the "Tiger" Claw in the movie is not the same as the one in the game...and then there's the Broadsword, which looks NOTHING like the WCII model, and ditto fo all the Kilrathi ships...I mean, the Dralthi I can understand since it's a common fighter name...but the Snakier?
If 'Dralthi' can be a common fighter name, why can't Snakeir be a common carrier name? (Much like *Strakha* is the common stealth fighter name... how many stealth fighters are called that? Three out of four classes?)

The Tiger's Claw in the movie is the same ship as in the game.

I don't like LOAF's explanation that there's two ships and all that...
Then you clearly didn't read my explanation, which involves a *single* ship. :)

My problem is that the second one happens during the war, when "the Kilrathi routinely blew up things". It should be during the war, yes. The year would say that. But then why is it the first time we contact the Kilrathi...again. Did we contact them, start a war, forget about them, contact them again with same ship, then start another war? Seems fishy to me. I think this one can be written off as a terrible inconsistancy.
But no one says it's the first contact with the Kilrathi... it's just the destruction of a ship by the Kilrathi. It's important because it's part of Paladin's background...

Okay LOAF. yknow what, believe what you want, but you're in a minority here.
As with all your other points, you will have trouble proving this...

The Lexington, from what I remember, had the implication of a slow death caused by a reactor criticality or something, i.e. not a sudden destruction, which is less likely to leave a carcass. I'm a little sick of this discussion.
The Lexington "succumed to internal explosions"... which is to say, it blew up. :)

We all know what is both feasible *and* what Chris Roberts intended.
I would be willing to bet that Chris Roberts has no idea what the Iason was, and that he intended absolutely nothing in this regard.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
I didnt read it LOAF, but I do remember this discussion before and an arguement by you that it was two seperate ships on two seperate occasions. I was going by that, not what you just posted.
 

Penguin

Spaceman
OK let me see if I understand this. There are some people here who dispute the lason incident. They say that the two events (2 ships named lason, captained by persons of the same name, destroyed in identical circumstances) is too similar to be a coincidence. Well coincidences happen. Here's a historical example:

In 202 BC a Roman commander by name of Publius Cornelius Scipio led a Roman army to Africa and defeated the Carthaginian enemy. This ended ended the war with victory for the Romans.

In 146 BC a Roman commander by name of Publius Cornelius Scipio led a Roman army to Africa and defeated the Carthaginian enemy. This ended ended the war with victory for the Romans.

Although I've ommitted certain facts this example has as many similarities as the lason incidents and actually did happen.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
That holds merit Penguin but what are the possibilities considering the endless boundries of space?
 

TC

SubCrid
not much smaller... there would be more people with the same name... and the Kilrathi are everywhere, exploratory ships are going to find a system with Kilrathi at some point... they just didn't expect that system to be a Kilrathi system, and they encountered a ship that didn't look like a known Kilrathi ship and didn't fire on them immediately...

TC
 

Wolfman

Rear Admiral
Iason

It is possible to have two Iasons both destroyed by the Kilrathi. The problem is having someone with same name and rank in charge (and it can't be the same person).

Umm back to my Priv2 bit I only have the CDs and didn't see the trailer, so I now next to nothing about.

Perhaps LOAF could explain it to me some other time (once this debate has cooled down).
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Mornin', all... this thread certainly ruined my chances for staying away from the CZ for a while:)

My current theory is that there is just one Iason -- since the Odysseus class ship mentioned in the Handbook was commisioned *before* 2629 when the 'first' Iason was destroyed. Thus, I discern that there's a single Iason which was restored after its destruction in '29 -- much like the battleships at Pearl Harbor or the TCS Lexington after Fleet Action.

There are two captains of the same name... which certainly isn't *that* odd a coincidence, given some of the historical ones we mentioned below.

(As for the chance of two people having such an 'odd' name -- consider that over two trillion people *died* in the war... which means that there was a far larger population total -- with that many people, surely there will be some with the same names:)).
 

mpanty

Keen Commander
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF

(As for the chance of two people having such an 'odd' name -- consider that over two trillion people *died* in the war... which means that there was a far larger population total -- with that many people, surely there will be some with the same names:)).
But LOAF... we're not talking about history, we're talking about fiction...

Again, I stand of the opinion that choosing two ship captains of the same name, for the same ship (separated in time by n years) can only give rise to confusion and debates like this one we're having right here...

What was the author's intent? Couldn't he make things simple and choose different names? :(
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
I'd like to think that Confed's master chrono screwed up and gave the wrong time during the WCM timeline. Maybe it was a Y2.654k problem or something. ;)
 

Frosty

a full fledged GF
Originally posted by mpanty
But LOAF... we're not talking about history, we're talking about fiction...
Which makes all the more plausible, and that much easier to swallow.
 

Dralthi5

Spaceman
In 202 BC a Roman commander by name of Publius Cornelius Scipio led a Roman army to Africa and defeated the Carthaginian enemy. This ended ended the war with victory for the Romans.

In 146 BC a Roman commander by name of Publius Cornelius Scipio led a Roman army to Africa and defeated the Carthaginian enemy. This ended ended the war with victory for the Romans.


202: Scipio the Elder defeats Hannibal at Zama.

146: Scipio Ameilianus, or Scipio the Younger (the adpoted son of the Elder), crushes the city of Carthage.

Not exactly the same, but close.

If I were to buy into the whole *two Iason incidents* thing (which I still don't, but that's just my personal opinion), I'd assume a similar situation, in that the Jedora of 2638 is the son of the Jedora of 2629. Guthrig's brother. Because two *unrelated* captains of the same name is a little hard to swallow.
 

Dougie

Spaceman
"The three people who disagree with us and are wrong about this may be very vocal, but that doesn't make them a majority."

No offense, but the whole reason why any of us are arguing this point at all is because there is no right or wrong i.e. there has been no published timeline post-movie (the Confed handbook, if I can speculate correctly, makes no mention of anything similar to the game timeline) so we don't know for certain who is right and who is wrong. So don't go saying anybody is wrong with such certainty, Kris, because *you*, sir, have no jurisdiction whatsoever other than that which your inflated ego imposes on you.

As for majorities and minorities, outside the CIC staff, I think you will find that most sane Wing Commander fans would laugh hard at the attempts to slip the movie, and the Iason incident, into the game timeline continuity.

<b> Now this I have to know please: </b>

What I don't understand is, LOAF, the movie-Iason incident is only chronicled in the Confed Handbook, and possibly the novel(? haven't read either). Then it has been pointed out that the author ofthat handbook said that everything in there was deliberately different from the game universe. *Then* you argue that the guy is in no place to make that claim. *But* you religiously (literally) follow his Iason incident story. I'm thinking, if this guy who has written this stuff is in no place to write anything, why don't you simply discredit that Iason story as apocrypha?

Dougie
-be yourself
 
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