Map Time Again

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Greetings, carto-fans!

It's that time of year once again: the leaves are changing colors, the weather's turning colder and the nights are getting longer... and it's time to re-edit the Wing Commander Universe map!

So, here's your job -- tell me what changes need to be made.

So far the only thing obvious to me (aside from some layout changes Wedge suggested months back) is adding a pair of jump lines: Calimachus<->Orestes and Orestes<->Sol, as per the Wing IV novel Vesuvius chase.

Other possibilities...

* Hari Space. Should I add the Hari systems referenced in Fleet Action? Meaning: add ~974 'burned out' systems to the Hari Sector region. If I do this, should I connect them with random jump points, or just leave them sitting empty in space?

* More Anomalies. Should I mark nebulae and star types and what-not? If so, how? We'll need to come up with a list.

* 'Development' Systems. Over the past few months I've had access to outlines for things like Privateer Online and such... should I add the sectors designed for those games? Or not because they were never published?

* Take into account distances. The map isn't to scale (since it's a jump map)... but should I add charts and such showing distances between given stars?

Oh well, give me your thoughts -- I'm also willing to do special one-off edits of the map for clubs and such, if you let me know what should be added.
 
"So far the only thing obvious to me (aside from some layout changes Wedge suggested months back) is adding a pair of jump lines: Calimachus<->Orestes and Orestes<->Sol, as per the Wing IV novel Vesuvius chase."

That would help keep things consistant


"* Hari Space. Should I add the Hari systems referenced in Fleet Action? Meaning: add ~974 'burned out' systems to the Hari Sector region. If I do this, should I connect them with random jump points, or just leave them sitting empty in space"

I would, it would help expand hings for the mod people, connect them, as for names would you just number them like HS-876?

"* More Anomalies. Should I mark nebulae and star types and what-not? If so, how? We'll need to come up with a list."

Only do the actual anomalies like the charybdis as well as make something for the enigma system due to its weird jump properties

"* 'Development' Systems. Over the past few months I've had access to outlines for things like Privateer Online and such... should I add the sectors designed for those games? Or not because they were never published?"

Well they are still part of the WC universe...

" Take into account distances. The map isn't to scale (since it's a jump map)... but should I add charts and such showing distances between given stars?"

I would just add a light year count on the jumpline


Sorry for the quotation marks, the quote wouldn't work right

Jim
 
Hey LOAF,

For my webpage, I'm planning to have an entire "holomap" of the Terran-Kilrathi front. This holomap shows the Terran-Kilrathi front that is spread from the Trk’Pahn, Vega, Epsilon, and Enigma Sectors. Small quadrants of Trk’Pahn and Enigma Sectors borders the war front on each end.

Is there a way to have systems flash and blink so it'll indicate Confederation forces and whatnot? I'm planning to have a flashing Confed logo over a star system indicating Confederation forces. A Flashing Kilrathi logo would indicate the latest report on Kilrathi forces. A flashing "mushroom cloud" would mean a battle is in progress.
 
Sure, yeah, either an animated gif or a shockwave file would do that pretty easily.

Quadrant Example of possible Hari Sector map:

hari4test.png
 
Why bother putting in points for systems we don't know the name of when you could just put up a large "cloud" mass on the map saying Hari space? Just a thought.

I think major anamolies would make the map interesting.

I'd definitely be interested in those "development systems" you mentioned. Perhaps a second version of your finished map with the "Development systems" in a specific color denoting their... er... lack of... existence?
 
Bandit LOAF said:
* Hari Space. Should I add the Hari systems referenced in Fleet Action? Meaning: add ~974 'burned out' systems to the Hari Sector region. If I do this, should I connect them with random jump points, or just leave them sitting empty in space?

I don't think it'd make the map better just to put random systems with random jumps. I like LeHah's idea of just marking off a large chunk of space.

* More Anomalies. Should I mark nebulae and star types and what-not?

That could be interesting, though it may be a waste of small space. I don't know of many nebula that we played in that covered more than one jump-capable system.

* 'Development' Systems. ... should I add the sectors designed for those games? Or not because they were never published?

Using systems that were once in development would be like using information from a rough draft of a story. Since you don't know exactly how they'll come out for the final copy, you'd just be making stuff up.

* Take into account distances. The map isn't to scale (since it's a jump map)... but should I add charts and such showing distances between given stars?

It'd be interesting to show distances, but we're not really told of many distances in the games and novles and such. Showing a confirmed distance of only a few systems wouldn't be too useful, and just guessing wouldn't be any better.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
So far the only thing obvious to me (aside from some layout changes Wedge suggested months back) is adding a pair of jump lines: Calimachus<->Orestes and Orestes<->Sol, as per the Wing IV novel Vesuvius chase.
IIRC, we had discussed at some point in the past adding jump lines from the Enigma system directly to other sectors.

* Hari Space. Should I add the Hari systems referenced in Fleet Action? Meaning: add ~974 'burned out' systems to the Hari Sector region. If I do this, should I connect them with random jump points, or just leave them sitting empty in space?
Hmm. I don't think there's much point adding this many systems - the books often talk about how both Confed and the Kilrathi empire consist of thousands and thousands of systems, so we'd go insane if we wanted to have them all on the map. Also, we don't know if some of the Hari systems aren't on the map already - after all, parts of the M'shrak Sector might have been Hari systems.

* More Anomalies. Should I mark nebulae and star types and what-not? If so, how? We'll need to come up with a list.
Hmm, this sounds like a separate project. Some kind of system guide or something along those lines would be cool, but I don't think it would work very well as part of the map.

* 'Development' Systems. Over the past few months I've had access to outlines for things like Privateer Online and such... should I add the sectors designed for those games? Or not because they were never published?
Definitely add them. I think most of us here would be interested in seeing what they had in mind for Priv Online. At the same time, it probably is a good idea to mark them differently, since they're not really official.

* Take into account distances. The map isn't to scale (since it's a jump map)... but should I add charts and such showing distances between given stars?
I'd advise keeping it clean. We don't know very much in this regard anyway.

Alternatively, you could keep the main universe map limited to jump lines, but then make bigger maps of the individual sectors, with known distances, nebulas, and whatever else we know.
 
A Hari "cloud" or "region" might be good. Nebulae and special star types would be good as well. I'm inclined to include "development systems," as well, but you should come up with a clear rule for using them. I'm not sure what the rule is.. but a rule to go by would be helpful I think. It might be as generous as to include every system ever mentioned in the design docs, or be more restricted to systems that were to be used specifically in a product or references specifically on a map or something like that. I'm not too interested in distances.
 
Allright, what about *this* for the Hari Sector?

testhari2.png


Text reads: Former Hari Empire, Hari Sector -
"A collection of a thousand stars around which orbit more than a thousand blasted lifeless worlds." Individual Hari jump lines are not shown, as no specific data regarding their configuration is available. (Posted here only so I can copy and paste it in the future if need-be).

(The quoted portion of the description is from Fleet Action's prologue.)

I've also added the two missing WC4 Novel jump lines to my full version, so that's all done.

My plan for today is to ready an even larger 'supermap', which will include the Armada Sectors and possibly...

* The outside '?' systems from Johnny's WCU Map prototype (https://www.wcnews.com/maps/wcu_map_original.gif). My logic is that that if I used the prototype to locate Gmarktu, I should use the other bits that couldn't be included on the final map... plus, this map was published on wcp.com. I'll just make them un-linked yellow systems (except where they coincide with the Landreich or Hari regions).

* Extend the map to the right with 'shapes' (a la the Hari Octagon) for Mantu, Nephilim and Steltek space... then make the following links:
- A new type of 'special' jump lines from Nephilim to Kilrah, Proxima, K'sk'taq, Hhallas and Valgard. (The Wormhole Gates)
- A new type of 'special' jump lines Steltek to Blockade Point Tango and from Blockade Point Tango to Delta Prime. (The Steltek Scout's Engine). (I need to look this up, though -- I believe there's a second place where you can possibly meat the scout...).
- A new type of 'special' jump line following the path of the TCS Olympus. (Which I'll have to look up...).

* Delete the 'empty' sector under Hari. Unless someone can remember why I went through the seemingly pointless effort of putting that there in the first place?

That could be interesting, though it may be a waste of small space. I don't know of many nebula that we played in that covered more than one jump-capable system.

There's a nebula in WC3 that spans the Caliban and Ariel Systems.

That said, I'm inclined to agree with the idea of an accompanying map guide or booklet instead of actually marking such things on the map. Anyone interested in helping out on something like that?


I'd definitely be interested in those "development systems" you mentioned. Perhaps a second version of your finished map with the "Development systems" in a specific color denoting their... er... lack of... existence?

Re: Development Systems... I'll scan the Privateer 3 maps and such, but I've decided I don't want to integrate them with the regular WCU Map at this point. I need to check my notes at home to see if I have enough Confed systems total (as per Action Stations)... if I need to further fill out the Confederation, I'll consider adding developmental items.

IIRC, we had discussed at some point in the past adding jump lines from the Enigma system directly to other sectors.

I'm still unsure about this. Do you remeber the proposed details? I *would* like to symbolize the double jump. Just jump lines to each adjacent sector?
 
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Bandit LOAF said:
...aside from some layout changes Wedge suggested months back
I did? What were they?

Anyway, that last "mock-up", I'd advise against it, if only for appearance sake. Beside, I thought the Steltek were in the galactic core, in which case they would be 'up', not to the 'right'. And do we really have any clue which direction the Nephilim came from? And I'm curious as to where the Double Helix and other numerous minor races come from.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
A new type of 'special' jump lines from Nephilim to Kilrah, Proxima, K'sk'taq, Hhallas and Valgard. (The Wormhole Gates)
I think this could be quite messy, and they're not really 'natural' jump lines. Maybe you could add an icon like you did for the systems linked by the Charybdis quasar.

Bandit LOAF said:
- A new type of 'special' jump lines Steltek to Blockade Point Tango and from Blockade Point Tango to Delta Prime. (The Steltek Scout's Engine). (I need to look this up, though -- I believe there's a second place where you can possibly meet the scout...).
I'm sure we only meet the scout en route to Blockade Point Tango, ie the scout was in the Nitir system. Also, I thought we agreed before that the Steltek apparently have the technology to jump to any system they choose in one jump. So I don't think it would make any sense to indicate Steltek jumps.

Bandit LOAF said:
I *would* like to symbolize the double jump. Just jump lines to each adjacent sector?
Again, I thought we (the CZ) had agreed before (during the early development stages) that the "double-jump" was just as the name implied: two standard jumps back to back. You even state that in your Jump FAQ.
 
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I did? What were they?

You e-mailed me a list of little notes some time ago... 'font too fat here', 'line missing here' and what-not. I made all of those changes.

Anyway, that last "mock-up", I'd advise against it, if only for appearance sake. Beside, I thought the Steltek were in the galactic core, in which case they would be 'up', not to the 'right'. And do we really have any clue which direction the Nephilim came from? And I'm curious as to where the Double Helix and other numerous minor races come from.

The location fomr the Nephilim comes from an Action Stations reference - Deep Probe 12 locating the 'next enemy' 10,000 light years coreward. (I *should* change the positioning of the 'bands' to represent a spiral galaxy, though.)

I think this could be quite messy, and they're not really 'natural' jump lines. Maybe you could add an icon like you did for the systems linked by the Charybdis quasar.

Well, the implication has been that the wormholes are built on existing points in space that just need to be opened... but I'm happy to put a big yellow 'N' or somesuch in those systems instead.

Again, I thought we (the CZ) had agreed before (during the early development stages) that the "double-jump" was just as the name implied: two standard jumps back to back. You even state that in your Jump FAQ.

Err, I think what Quarto and I both meant to say was the Enigma System black hole - not the Concordia's double-jump.
 
WC Map DB

Because I am now semi-officially in charge of the WC:Universe Project I have had to create a Data Base of all the Stars on the WC Map. So the only thing I ask is you creat a change log of all the things you are going to modify.

You can find more "stuff" at
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wcuniverse/wcuniverse/

Also I don’t know if you are ever going to do this, but what I think would be cool is if you updated the ships section and had the ability to add variants and just rework it in general.

That’s about it.

-Matt-
 
Bandit LOAF said:
My plan for today is to ready an even larger 'supermap', which will include the Armada Sectors and possibly...
Those will be difficult to attach to the map - do you have any plans about where to put them? I would suggest putting them on the bottom of the map, starting to the left of Landreich, then continuing below it, and stretching all the way to Hari space on the other side of Kilrah. This way, these sectors would offer back-door access to both Earth and Kilrah, which seems to be the only way to explain why the two carriers encountered so little resistance.

Speaking of which, I think it might be a good idea to revise the ownership of the systems on the Armada map - these worlds probably weren't inhabited, especially since the WC3/KSaga manual does say that the Lexington used a newly discovered jump point.

I'm still unsure about this. Do you remeber the proposed details? I *would* like to symbolize the double jump. Just jump lines to each adjacent sector?
I remember proposing which systems in the adjacent sectors the jump lines would lead to, but I don't remember their names. I believe one of them was Ella, though - the Enigma connection would thus explain why Confed built their superbase in this system. When I have a spare hour or two, I'll see if I can dig up more about this in old map-related threads.

The location fomr the Nephilim comes from an Action Stations reference - Deep Probe 12 locating the 'next enemy' 10,000 light years coreward. (I *should* change the positioning of the 'bands' to represent a spiral galaxy, though.)
Hmm, coreward does suggest that they're above the current map, not to the right of Kilrathi space... either way, maybe it would be best to show these locations on a small-scale diagram of the whole galaxy, like the one included in the WCP map?
 
Bandit LOAF said:
You e-mailed me a list of little notes some time ago... 'font too fat here', 'line missing here' and what-not. I made all of those changes.
Ah, yes. Minor cosmetic things, IIRC. I know I can be unnecessarily picky, but dense sectors like Vega were really messy. :)

Bandit LOAF said:
Err, I think what Quarto and I both meant to say was the Enigma System black hole - not the Concordia's double-jump.
Right, that makes sense. Sorry.
 
Yet another trivial point: Teragon (gauntlet system in Armada) is spelt with one r, not two. M'shrak sector, Dath'que quadrant.
 
Too busy. How about just adding an asterix to Dakota and making a footnote at the botom of the picture saying the jump goes to various star systems?
 
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