Let me get this straight...
- Thread starter LividLiquid
- Start date
KillerWave
Spaceman
For those who say that there is no reference to the WCU in P2:
SHIPS
Reg No:
A132_534V
Owner:
Universal Freight
Type:
Ilia Class
Background:
Cargo ship, licensed to carry freight anywhere within the confederation. Has been in service for 10 years. Due to be de-commissioned at the end of the year.
There are another dozens of ships there are licensed to fly in the areas of the confederation. Also, doesnt the Faldari Class militar ship looks a lot like a Banshee?
SHIPS
Reg No:
A132_534V
Owner:
Universal Freight
Type:
Ilia Class
Background:
Cargo ship, licensed to carry freight anywhere within the confederation. Has been in service for 10 years. Due to be de-commissioned at the end of the year.
There are another dozens of ships there are licensed to fly in the areas of the confederation. Also, doesnt the Faldari Class militar ship looks a lot like a Banshee?
LividLiquid
Rear Admiral
Yeah! You guys keep on telling me that P2 is part of the WCU because Origin says so, but did Chris or Erin Roberts ever say so?
KillerWave
Spaceman
Did i say its in the WCU because Origin says so?
No, i say it is because the GAME says so.
No, i say it is because the GAME says so.
Cargo ship, licensed to carry freight anywhere within the confederation. Has been in service for 10 years. Due to be de-commissioned at the end of the year.
There are another dozens of ships there are licensed to fly in the areas of the confederation. Also, doesnt the Faldari Class militar ship looks a lot like a Banshee?
Sounds like a pretty weak argument to me, if you're going to base whether or not P2 is in the WCU on a semantic point. A confederacy is a system of government by definition. Obviously, since it's mentioned, the government structure in P2 is a confederacy, but equally, that doesn't necessarily mean it's actually set in WCU either. It's not like the WCU is the only existence which employs a confederate structure of government.
That Talon on the other hand, is a little easier for me to swallow. Although the flight dynamics and avionics are a little too radically different for me. And whatever happened to the countermeasure pods employed in the latest WC? Why'd they have to resort to WC2 style decoys again?
KillerWave
Spaceman
It was asked sometime ago for any reference to confederation in P2. Thats just do it.
[Edited by KillerWave on 02-14-2001 at 01:39]
[Edited by KillerWave on 02-14-2001 at 01:39]
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Not a spectacularly weak argument -- the ships database makes clear that there is a difference between Confederation (note capitalization!) space and the Tri-System... thus supporting Origin's FAQ entry about the Tri-System not yet being part of the Confederation.
The 'countermeasure pods' were a one-off technology -- they appeared only in 2669's Privateer, and were replaced by decoys in every other game since.
Re: Chris and Erin. Erin Roberts has, indeed, stated that Privateer 2 is part of the Wing Commander universe (he was at the famous Privateer 2 chat that got interrupted by Ultima Online players -- but we did get *that* question off!)
So... why argue in support of Privateer 2? Years ago, people who did this were labeled Origin sicophants -- but their continued existence in this post-Origin era should seem to discount... In my mind, the most valid reason for attempting to including Privateer 2 in the Wing Commander Universe is that it acts as an 'afterward' to our story. It is the equivalent "Safe at Any Speed" to the Known Space canon -- a concluding, seemingly almost unrelated look forward that allows us to fathom a more complete timeline. In Privateer 2's case, we see a glimpse glipse of the Wing Commander Universe of the 2790's -- we see that mankind still thrives a century after so many of our heroes died defending it.
The 'countermeasure pods' were a one-off technology -- they appeared only in 2669's Privateer, and were replaced by decoys in every other game since.
Re: Chris and Erin. Erin Roberts has, indeed, stated that Privateer 2 is part of the Wing Commander universe (he was at the famous Privateer 2 chat that got interrupted by Ultima Online players -- but we did get *that* question off!)
So... why argue in support of Privateer 2? Years ago, people who did this were labeled Origin sicophants -- but their continued existence in this post-Origin era should seem to discount... In my mind, the most valid reason for attempting to including Privateer 2 in the Wing Commander Universe is that it acts as an 'afterward' to our story. It is the equivalent "Safe at Any Speed" to the Known Space canon -- a concluding, seemingly almost unrelated look forward that allows us to fathom a more complete timeline. In Privateer 2's case, we see a glimpse glipse of the Wing Commander Universe of the 2790's -- we see that mankind still thrives a century after so many of our heroes died defending it.
Firstly, with regard to the Anhurian humanist movement, if it were started 2000 years ago, would have been formed in the dark ages assuming the date is 2790! (~100 years after WC). Seeing as the Terran Confederation and the rest of humanity have sprung forth from Earth itself, it seems a little hard to swallow that humans formed an organisation on another world before they had the means to get there!
Also, Anhur was referred to in P2 somewhere I'm sure as the cradle of civilisation. To anyone who thinks logically, in the WC universe, the cradle of human civilisation was in fact, surprise surprise, EARTH!
Now, we have two conflicting homeworlds, Anhur and Earth. To be quite honest, for the purposes of a WC universe, Earth would be the only alternative. it is too far fetched to consider a dual evolutionary development for the purposes of explaining the discrepancy in dating.
However I have a comprimise. How about P2 taking place in the future of more than 100 years. After all, there is talk in one of the news reports of a widow sueing for a time machine. It appears that ConFed is still a little too young to have developed a method for time travel only 100 years after WC
. A few thousand years perhaps.
In those thousands of years, the word Earth may have evolved into the word Anhur. Corruption (or growth) of language is very common and if the homeworld was Earth between 2000 and 2681, but was Anhur in the hundred years after 2681, it would seem a little incredulous.
Also, Anhur was referred to in P2 somewhere I'm sure as the cradle of civilisation. To anyone who thinks logically, in the WC universe, the cradle of human civilisation was in fact, surprise surprise, EARTH!
Now, we have two conflicting homeworlds, Anhur and Earth. To be quite honest, for the purposes of a WC universe, Earth would be the only alternative. it is too far fetched to consider a dual evolutionary development for the purposes of explaining the discrepancy in dating.
However I have a comprimise. How about P2 taking place in the future of more than 100 years. After all, there is talk in one of the news reports of a widow sueing for a time machine. It appears that ConFed is still a little too young to have developed a method for time travel only 100 years after WC
. A few thousand years perhaps.In those thousands of years, the word Earth may have evolved into the word Anhur. Corruption (or growth) of language is very common and if the homeworld was Earth between 2000 and 2681, but was Anhur in the hundred years after 2681, it would seem a little incredulous.
Looking back on the manual that came with P2, the 'unknown ship' picture looks exactly like a talon. Perhaps there is no answer. The designers, the game and the material all contradict each other.
I still believe my own opinion of course I think it is very well thought out and appears to follow a logical sequence
I still believe my own opinion of course
I think it is very well thought out and appears to follow a logical sequence KillerWave
Spaceman
What always bothered me about P2 is the looks of the technology from one planet to another (transport, tools...), to me it always looked like what i was seeing from a planet to another was too different, like it was an alien world...
Of course that would be differences between them ( more/less money, culture...), but as far as i can tell, they were all humans, right?
Of course that would be differences between them ( more/less money, culture...), but as far as i can tell, they were all humans, right?
The 2000 year thing, do we know that the year used on Anhur is equivilant to a Terran Year, i think not since the chances of 2 different planets having the exact same revolutional time around 2 totaly different stars which in all likely hood have different mass and thus different gravity, with differing other planet's in the system changing the speed of revolution and different natural statlites also changing the speed of revolution, I find id hard to believe that an Anhurian year is equivalent to a terran year, as such 2000 anhurian years could be a significantly less amount of time in terran years for all we know 5 anhurian years could equal 1 terran year thus placing the begining of anhurian civilization at around 2390 by which time human (pilgrim) colonization of beyond earth planets had already begun. so it is indeed possible that the times are significantly different than everybody is arguing.
It appears the answer is no.
The Tri-System does distinguish between “humans” and “humanoids” as species; in particular the hero, Ser Lev Arris, is classified as humanoid.
However, as far as we can tell, the terms are used only generically and so could mean that relative to us humans, the Tri-System is made up of only various humanoid species, with one constituting a majority. (Well, okay, the character Slade “Tex” Carver sounds like he’s a bona fide human being, and if there’s one, there certainly could be more, though even then it could still be the case that Slade and his presumed fellows constitute one of the minority groups of “humanoids” relative to the predominant “humans” in the Tri-System.) We also have to keep in mind that instances of genetic mutation, both natural and induced, are not uncommon in the Tri-System.
First of all, the game refers to 2000 years as the amount of time (1) that the three systems in the Tri-System have “co-existed peacefully”, and (2) that Anhur was transformed from a “once-pleasant planet into a smog-laden, filthy warzone”. The time frame does not mark any “beginning” for Tri-System civilization.
Second, your point about the length of a year is a good one. It appears that the Tri-System year is not equal to a Terran year. While the Tri-System seems to use a twelve-month calendar, at least a few of those months are 33-37 days long. What we don’t know, however, is whether any of the other months “compensate” by being less than 30 days, and to what extent the Tri-System day (hour/minute/second?) equals the Terran day.
Well Napoleon if you really want to get technical, you're going to have to think about the fact that a Terran year is going to be very standard amongst the whole galaxy for 'humanoid' life to exist/evolve.
At Earth's current orbit, it is heated and cooled within only a small change, ie, 50c in the deserts to -60c at the poles. This is quite suitable for life. However, if you go to Mars' orbit, it is freezing, and it is only double the timespan of an Earth year.
Given that a planet requires billions of years to form an atmosphere that is conducive to population by humans/humanoids, we can rule out having a large orbit around a hotter brighter star. The star would only last a few hundred million years, not enough to form a non toxic atmosphere. In effect, its most likely that Anhur's year is either similar to Earth's or has only a slight deviation. Not 5 times as suggested by Napoleon.
Further, if Anhur was part of the Confederation and indeed part of the WC universe, why would they have changed the dating system system wide from datelines 2669.xxx to something else? Those datelines from WC are based on an Earth year of 365/366 days.
At Earth's current orbit, it is heated and cooled within only a small change, ie, 50c in the deserts to -60c at the poles. This is quite suitable for life. However, if you go to Mars' orbit, it is freezing, and it is only double the timespan of an Earth year.
Given that a planet requires billions of years to form an atmosphere that is conducive to population by humans/humanoids, we can rule out having a large orbit around a hotter brighter star. The star would only last a few hundred million years, not enough to form a non toxic atmosphere. In effect, its most likely that Anhur's year is either similar to Earth's or has only a slight deviation. Not 5 times as suggested by Napoleon.
Further, if Anhur was part of the Confederation and indeed part of the WC universe, why would they have changed the dating system system wide from datelines 2669.xxx to something else? Those datelines from WC are based on an Earth year of 365/366 days.
To Nemesis, for 'humanoids', they sure look human to me. If the tri system was indeed part of ConFed and not some parallel universe for the purposes of the story, why wouldn't they be, well, HUMAN?
Also, why would the trisystem have a separate dating system to that of ConFed if they were part of it?
Also, why would the trisystem have a separate dating system to that of ConFed if they were part of it?
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
There seems to be some confusion here about what the Tri-System is a part of, and what it isn't a part of.
1. The Tri-System is a part of the WC Universe.
2. The Tri-System is not a part of the Confederation.
Therefore, they do not need to measure time using Terran standards. Also, regardless of whether they came from Earth or Anhur, there's no reason to assume that they measure years since the birth of Christ.
1. The Tri-System is a part of the WC Universe.
2. The Tri-System is not a part of the Confederation.
Therefore, they do not need to measure time using Terran standards. Also, regardless of whether they came from Earth or Anhur, there's no reason to assume that they measure years since the birth of Christ.
Quarto, if tri-system IS in fact part of the WC universe, the figures we are given don't add up. If you can't see that you must be pretty dense! You can't tell me there were TWO worlds on which human's evolved, because then we would have found out about it years ago when Tri System met up with 'our' humans.
As I said, years have to be fairly similar in order for life to evolve. That is a straightforward argument.
Therefore, if tri-system IS to be a part of the WC universe, it is most likely to take place considerable millennia into the future, not 2790!
Find whats wrong with MY side of the debate and please tell me why!
As I said, years have to be fairly similar in order for life to evolve. That is a straightforward argument.
Therefore, if tri-system IS to be a part of the WC universe, it is most likely to take place considerable millennia into the future, not 2790!
Find whats wrong with MY side of the debate and please tell me why!
Master_Anarchist
Spaceman
like mr Q said, they prob dont base their years on christ. so 2790 for them wont be our 2790.
and is it not possible that some humans simply decided to move to the tri system?
and is it not possible that some humans simply decided to move to the tri system?