Landreich?

Bandit LOAF said:
Oh, sure, the loss of the Concordia seems to have had a big effect on morale.

Yeah, hey btw LOAF, I was reading your translation of Concordia in one of the other threads... I dont think its entirely correct, you came close, but its a bit different... my highschools moto was "In Harmony small things grow." and if you look in Spanish "con" means with or "in company of", and spanish is a derivative of Latin so my educated guess is that Concordia in fact means "In Harmony"
 
I'd have to see the particular thread to see what I'd said... I've posted a lot over the years :)

"Harmony" is a pretty good definition for Concordia, I suppose. That's certainly why the system of religious schools gets the name.

Concordia is derived from the word concord, though, which can also involve a more specific aspect of harmony or union between political states. In terms of a 'Confederation class' dreadnaught, that's probably the more likely definition.

(Of course, the TCS Concordia actually comes from the fact that there's a Concordia University here in Austin...)
 
Ok, so we covered that... but one thing, Im having trouble w/ Towlyn's survice record... lets see... At first he was the Captain aboard the Tiger's Claw, then went over to the second Concordia as Admiral, then went over to the TCS Austin, then the dreadnought Concordia?
 
Tolwyn was only captain aboard the Claw by way of a highly suspect usurping of command from Captain Thorn, though, it wasn't a formal command like his 3rd and 14th Fleet commands.

(And no, I don't buy "Admirals, by definition, do not usurp", or however the exact quote to Blair went.)
 
BrynS said:
Either that, or Origin did not effectively convey the proportions correctly in the scene. What do you guys think?

Bingo. This is WC3, and proportions are not that relevant. But it was a nice study you did on the subject, very interesting.
 
destruction of Concordia

I can't begin to imagine how the Concordia was eventually shot down. The fact that Blair wasn't on board goes a long way toward making it plausible that a concentrated Kilrathi strike force may have had success in bringing the super-ship down, but damn....I can vividly remember how good the Concordia was at defending herself! No Cruiser, Destroyer, Carrier, or Dreadnought could withstand a single blast from her Phase-Transit, or even two volleys from its anti-matter cannons. The Phase-Transit could get off a shot every two minutes or so, with intermediary shots coming off from its anti-matter guns, which managed to fire about every two minutes as well. Because of the superb armament of flak cannons she had at her disposal, as well as her gigantic fighter escort (100+ of Confed's finest fighters!), I don't believe that any bomber/fighter wing could have made a successful bombing run (plus the Concordia had a tough shell, and could take 6-8 torpedos AT LEAST). And that's even with Corvette support. That bit of deduction implies that a large carrier force (or two) would have been sent to intercept the Concordia if the Kilrathi made it their primary target. However, even if two carrier groups were launched and managed to achieve the element of surprise I still think even their best efforts at destroying the Concordia would have still ended in failure. Bottom line: Kilrathi fighters cannot penetrate her fighter support, Bombers cannot complete the torpedo runs neccesary to destroy her because of the fighter/flak/anti-matter screen, and CapShips cannot threaten her because for every 3 CapShips they get within firing range they would have already lost 2....that attrition rate is simply too high, even for the battle-hungry Kilrathi- not to mention they lose CapShips so fast against the Concordia that those ships don't have enough time to get off enough anti-matter volley to significantly damage her. Despite all of tjhese deductions (and I admit, while logical, they are still based on the limited knowledge/data that I have available though experience fighting alongside the Concordia) the ship ended up a scrap heap on some backwater planet. The cats managed to take her down. So finally, here's my theory on how the invincible Concordia was destroyed. Remember how the Tiger's Claw was destroyed? Of course you do. The Kilrathi held on to some top-secret, extremely devastating new technology (in this case, stealth fighters) and they waited to the most opportune time to use it for a first strike. My theory is that in the Concordia's case, they waited until Blair was off-ship and then used the opportunity to unveil the Skipper missle. Without the infallible Blair to take down these missles, and with a sufficiently large volley, none of the Concordia's vast defensive array would have been capable of exposing and stopping the Skippers. Since they were first used sometime between WC2 and WC3, which is the same time the Concordia was destroyed. I don't know how the hell a race of warmongering cats with giant precision-less digits, and little value placed on science and discovery keeps managing to developing such miraculous technologies, but the Skipper missle sure paid off anyway. !!
 
First off, perhaps you might want to consider using a few paragraphs here and there, FB...

That said, remember that by 2669, the "invulnerable" phase shields that kept the Concordia out of a lot of grief in WC2 were no longer so invulnerable due to the advancement of fighter-based weaponry that allowed effective engagement of WC2-era shielding.

Also, the Concordia had taken 3 torpedo hits in the Battle of Terra (see Fleet Action for the BoT), which hadn't been fully taken care of by the time it bit the dust, roughly 6 months later (Blair was injured in BoT, and WC3N says he spent about 6 months in the body and fender shop, as I recall). It's easier to destroy a ship (particularly in a desperate rear-guard action against a foe who still has a fair bit of firepower available to it, as was the case with the Vespus engagement) when it's not operating at peak performance.

Another issue is that firing the PTC was deemed an unacceptable risk, due to its instability, possibly to the point of blowing up the ship.

In short, it doesn't at all require some fancy super-secret weapon to down the Concordia, just time and effort.
 
The PTC could be fired multiple times though!!! It just needed time to cool down first! Plus, if a strike force jumped the Concordia, and knocked out its PTC before they could get a shot off, it would then be more vulnerable...
 
Iceyl86 said:
The PTC could be fired multiple times though!!! It just needed time to cool down first! Plus, if a strike force jumped the Concordia, and knocked out its PTC before they could get a shot off, it would then be more vulnerable...

The PTC -could- be fired multiple times... but by 2665, they'd stopped making ships with them because firing the PTC could blow the firing ship up too, and the 'cool down' was to recharge the reactors which powered the gun. In SO2, Angel objected to firing the main gun because it could blow up the ship, but Tolwyn ordered it anyways.

Between the fact the ship had taken incredible damage - three hits - back in Sol system during the Battle of Terra, and that it would've probably taken only four or five torpedo hits to kill it even if it was in top condition, the Concordia wouldn't have been hard to take down in Vespus, if even one bomber had gotten off its load.
 
Death said:
Tolwyn was only captain aboard the Claw by way of a highly suspect usurping of command from Captain Thorn, though, it wasn't a formal command like his 3rd and 14th Fleet commands.

I thought he meant Tolwyn's command of the Claw in the WC Academy TV series?
 
Ijuin said:
I thought he meant Tolwyn's command of the Claw in the WC Academy TV series?

He was a Commodore at the time.
When he took over from Captain Thorn (and onwards) he was an Admiral. I think they're talking specifically about his service as an Admiral.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
(It is, mind you, a mind boggling coincidence on the part of the WC3 FMV that Blair and Angel happened to go out on a date at exactly the same place the Concordia would soon crash land. :))

Whoa, only know I figured that out.

That suplot was really well done. Blair had all the reasons to be really mad at the Kilrathi. Mad enought to send them all to hell.

BTW, Loaf, to you still have that Taunt from Thrakkath on the final mission? The one he says if Blair doesn't decloack.
 
I thought this thread was discussing about the Republic of Landreich, which brings me to my question.
I am searching for my copy of Action Stations and Fleet Action and figuring out who was the President of Landreich?
I vaguely remember it was Max Krueger during Fleet Action or some high position but I am vague about during Action Stations ( Battle of McAuliffe )
 
I'm pretty sure Max Kruger has been president ever since the republic's inception. Another thing, I saw in a post a few days ago that the Concordia was rendered invulnerable by programming in the many of the battles during WC2. Don't quote me on that, I didn't say it. I can't remember who did, one of the really smart guys.
 
Ok, so we covered that... but one thing, Im having trouble w/ Towlyn's survice record... lets see... At first he was the Captain aboard the Tiger's Claw, then went over to the second Concordia as Admiral, then went over to the TCS Austin, then the dreadnought Concordia?

Tolwyn served as formal Captain of the Tiger's Claw with some distinction before 2654. The actual story behind this is unknown.

After this he was promoted to Commodore and made commander of the 14th Fleet. His flag was on the TCS Concordia (II), but he did not command her.

Following the events of the movie and Pilgrim Stars, Tolwyn (whose star fell significantly as a result of his response to the nouveau-Pilgrim threat) accused Captain Thorn of cowardice and took command of the ship himself. This is where episodes two through twelve of Academy take place, as does most of the original Wing Commander. Tolwyn left the Tiger's Claw after ordering Halcyon to take command and hunt down the Sivar (so, in the Goddard series of SM1).

Tolwyn took command of the TCS Austin while the Tiger's Claw was behind enemy lines.

BTW, Loaf, to you still have that Taunt from Thrakkath on the final mission? The one he says if Blair doesn't decloack.

I'm not sure which you mean. This is what Thrakhath says during their dogfight: "I have long held the belief that The heart of the Tiger was as smart as he was noble. But now I discover you are foolhardy enough to invade the very airspace of my Homeworld! Your courage vanished the last time we met, yet now you venture here alone. Nothing is more pathetic than a foolish warrior. Nevertheless, I will relish your demise. Welcome to my world, Heart of the Tiger . . . Welcome to your death!"

I am searching for my copy of Action Stations and Fleet Action and figuring out who was the President of Landreich?
I vaguely remember it was Max Krueger during Fleet Action or some high position but I am vague about during Action Stations ( Battle of McAuliffe )

In terms of the Free Republic of the Landreich, Max Kruger has been the only president it's ever had - from the secession crisis which created the nation in 2650 to the forward of Action Stations (2677) he remained the president.

A man named Johann Bulcher was the President of the Landreich Sector in Action Stations. He was an old friend and comrade of Winston Turner.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I'm not sure which you mean. This is what Thrakhath says during their dogfight:

Not during, before, if Blair takes a while to decloak and taunts him. It's something like "Heart of the Tiger, you have failed your lairmate, failed your race..."
 
That's a different speech, from the first time you meet him (after the Behemoth):

THRAKHATH (V.O.)
The Heart of the Tiger has failed his race . . . He has failed himself . . . He has failed the human he knows as Devereaux . . . Angel . . . his lair-mate . . .

THRAKHATH (V.O.)
His heart has not been valiant enough . . . His warring has not been skillful enough . . . And he has failed a true warrior, the Angel . . . For she displayed heart . . .

THRAKHATH (V.O.)
You and I, ape, have unfinished business . . . Now, I give you the chance . . . If you are a true warrior, you will take the challenge . . . You will see on your radar, I have sent my wingman off . . . The ancient test of courage is ours to engage in . . .

THRAKHATH (V.O.)
The Heart of the Tiger continues to weaken . . . He did not protect his liar-mate . . . Now he hesitates in combat . . .
 
Oh, that's right. Of course. The one was thinking about was the "Nobly fought..." one. Still have that one?

Thrakkath do get a lot of great in-game comments.

Also the small cutscenes with Thrakkath on WC2 and WC3 were really great.
 
Delance said:
Oh, that's right. Of course. The one was thinking about was the "Nobly fought..." one. Still have that one?

Thrakkath do get a lot of great in-game comments.

Also the small cutscenes with Thrakkath on WC2 and WC3 were really great.

... he seemed to be a lot more honorable in WC2, secret missions though... I mean he didnt kill Hobbes or Paladin and offered to fight alongside Blair at one point...
 
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