Landreich?

[BrynS]

Did anyone else think the way the Concordia landed (as shown in the WC3 intro) was a little weird? Yeah, maybe it could have skidded for a long time on just momentum, but the way it just stops bow up bothers me.

By the way, this thread is geeky fanboy central.

Looking at the scene again, I'm wondering whether or not the Concordia was somehow split in to two main structural sections, perhaps upon atmospheric entry or after the initial ground impact?

Due to the Concordia's sheer size (and length - 983.7 metres) relative to its actual resting position fairly close (~1-3km's?) to the shoreline, I would suggest that it's remaining bulk could not be concealed below the water (which typically wouldn't be the necessary 400-600 metres or so deep at that point from the shore to engulf the rest of the Concordia), unless the scale and proportion of the shot is way off or the geographical features of the Mistral Sea in that location are atypical, i.e. perhaps that area was an atoll or had a very steep seabed decline/drop-off from the shore?

Obviously one doesn't know exactly how far the Concordia was from the shore and how deep the water was at that point, as well as other factors and can't assume the "split-in-two" supposition to be viable -- I can't recall any supporting tidbits from the WC3 novel either. It's also possible that I am misjuding the scale of the shot or that it was always Origin's intention for the complete Concordia superstructure to be rendered partially submerged. However, after scrutinising the Concordia's stats and the scene (as it was rendered) again, I would lean towards those factors making some kind structural separation inevitable for the rendered image to be accurate/realistic from a depth of field perspective. Either that, or Origin did not effectively convey the proportions correctly in the scene. What do you guys think?

In support of the "split-in-two" possibility, there also appears to be a separate section just to the right of the main structure, which emanates what also appears to be a separate explosion from it's location, as highlighted in the following image could that be the Concordia's stern section?

I've encoded a brief 15 second portion (1.34MB) of the scene, including the "separate" explosion, here.

Cheers,


BrynS

 

[Iceyl86]

First, I dont think the Concordia split in half... if she did, she would have split at the weaker area which is still above water... as for coming down backwards, do you think we can credit her crew w/ that? Maybe putting the ship into a de-orbit burn to try to save her?

P.S. Just thought I'd bring this up, I remember when I first played WC2, I actually build a model of the Concordia out of legoes it was about three feet long, and pretty close to perfect. Colors were correct and everything... wish I still had it, or at least a pic of it... I tried to glue it together to ensure its survival, but that didnt work...

 

[Dahan]

I had a though that the Concorida may have "fell backwards" and I would agree that the crew may have wanted to try to save as much as possible.
Of course it did not turn out they way they wanted it

 

[Iceyl86]

Due to the Concordia's sheer size (and length - 983.7 metres) relative to its actual resting position fairly close (~1-3km's?) to the shoreline, I would suggest that it's remaining bulk could not be concealed below the water (which typically wouldn't be the necessary 400-600 metres or so deep at that point from the shore to engulf the rest of the Concordia),

BrynS

Makes sense, I added to it a little to show where it might be, I think its a logical assumption.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

unless the scale and proportion of the shot is way off or the geographical features of the Mistral Sea in that location are atypical, i.e. perhaps that area was an atoll or had a very steep seabed decline/drop-off from the shore?

The novel calls where Blair is standing a "clifftop".

Edit: also, it says that the hull is "half submerged".

 

[Iceyl86]

The novel calls where Blair is standing a "clifftop".

Edit: also, it says that the hull is "half submerged".

Then what is the wreckage off in the distance... and more importantly why does Blair blame himself for the loss?

 

[Aplha 1-1]

Blair was off the roster due to a serious injury so blames himself for not being there to try and save her. As for the ass end first during the crash think about this:
Large un-aerodynamic object, burning with secondary explosions comming down fast in an atmospheric environment with gravity similar to earth. Look at the connies profile and you'll see she's rear-heavy.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I don't think there is a wreckage off in the distance (at least in the rendered scene -- the 'explosion' is closer to the camera than the forward hull).

Blair blames himself for the Concordia's loss because he wasn't there when she went down.

Blair replaced Angel as Concordia's Wing Commander when she transferred to Covert Ops... and then he was wounded during the Battle of Earth. He spent six months recovering in a military hospital, and during that time his carrier was destroyed.

 

[Iceyl86]

So after the war, what do you think was done w/ the Concordia hulk? Was it left as a memorial, or pulled outta there.... woulda been a great feet to pull that huge thing out!

 

[DyNaMiX]

Not sure where Vespus stood at the time. If it was a contested area I'd say they'd have destroyed it or attempted to salvage bits and peices in order to recycle resources and to prevent the Kilrathi from doing so.


Another question: I can't understand how all hands on board were lost.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

So after the war, what do you think was done w/ the Concordia hulk? Was it left as a memorial, or pulled outta there.... woulda been a great feet to pull that huge thing out!

Well, obviously we don't know -- I suppose there's an entire galaxy full of such wrecks to clean up in 2669...

Not sure where Vespus stood at the time. If it was a contested area I'd say they'd have destroyed it or attempted to salvage bits and peices in order to recycle resources and to prevent the Kilrathi from doing so.

At this point in the war, Vespus was a major military headquarters.

Another question: I can't understand how all hands on board were lost.

Even ignoring whatever violent event lead Concordia being upended in the Mistral Sea, the darned thing fell out of space.

 

[Iceyl86]

Not sure where Vespus stood at the time. If it was a contested area I'd say they'd have destroyed it or attempted to salvage bits and peices in order to recycle resources and to prevent the Kilrathi from doing so.


Another question: I can't understand how all hands on board were lost.

My guess is there was only a small crew on board as it wasnt a front line fighter now... and that crew tried to save her and lost thier lives in the process... Dont forget, this was the Confed flagship! To lose it would be a serious blow... but what ship took over as the flag after she was lost?

 

[Bandit LOAF]

You're thinking of Star Trek's anomalous claim that the Enterprise is the "flagship of the Federation".

In reality, and in Wing Commander, a ship is a 'flagship' because someone commanding a group of ships is onboard. The Concordia was flagship of the 14th (and later 3rd) Fleet because Admiral Tolwyn, the commander of the fleet, was flying his flag aboard her -- when he left, so too did the title flagship.

 

[DyNaMiX]

Even ignoring whatever violent event lead Concordia being upended in the Mistral Sea, the darned thing fell out of space.

I should have been a little more specific.
A large porition of the ship is still intact. Life pods/fights/shuttles/corvettes/etc. It's just hard to believe so much of the crew could have been killed, that none of them were able to survive the crash itself.

 

[BrynS]

The novel calls where Blair is standing a "clifftop".

Edit: also, it says that the hull is "half submerged".

Thanks Loaf, I should have checked my novel first before speculating!

I can't find the reference to the "clifftop" location (do you have the page reference per chance?), although the description on page 7, paragraph 2 (WC3N) is quite clear,

"...Blair had been part of the survey crew that had discovered the carrier's broken hull lying half-submerged in the waters off the Mistral Coast..."

I would hesitate to suggest that the broken adjective could imply that the hull was split into at least two parts, however it is at best ambiguous and without further express detail in the novel, I would lean towards it simply describing the heavily damaged and poor state of the wreckage, rather than denoting that the ship had been broken in two and/or multiple parts.

Cheers,


BrynS

 

[Bandit LOAF]

The "clifftop" is later in the book, in Chapter 15 (when Blair is imagining he and Angel there).

 

[Iceyl86]

You're thinking of Star Trek's anomalous claim that the Enterprise is the "flagship of the Federation".

Be that as it may, you dont think it would have been a hit to moral? This ship took out K'tithrik (spelling?) Mang, helped win the Battle of Earth, etc. This ship I think would have been famous throughout the Confederation, I can't count how many stories Ive read where moral shot up when they saw a well respected ship join the fleet. Example: Pearl Harbor didnt have quite the effect, moral wise, as they thought it would, why? Because the historic carrier USS Lexington CV-2 survived, then it was a major moral hit during Coral Sea when she finally was destroyed. My Great uncle was there and he said men were breaking down crying when they saw her sink.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Oh, sure, the loss of the Concordia seems to have had a big effect on morale.

 

[BrynS]

The "clifftop" is later in the book, in Chapter 15 (when Blair is imagining he and Angel there).

OK, thanks! I'll have a gander later on.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

(It is, mind you, a mind boggling coincidence on the part of the WC3 FMV that Blair and Angel happened to go out on a date at exactly the same place the Concordia would soon crash land. )