Is Chris Roberts a racism?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Zone' started by Calzone, Jul 5, 2002.

  1. Starkey

    Starkey Avenging Rooster

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    I don´t think they were THAT worried with Russia at the time. They did what they did because it was a quickier way to end the war without losing much time, money and thousands of soldiers to the desperate, kamikaze japanese troops.
    "When the foe is near vanquished he is more dangerous" (or something like that) - Kilrathi Emperor - WC3
     
  2. Mekt-Hakkikt

    Mekt-Hakkikt Mpanty's bane

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    Hmm, but I seem to remember too having heard in a history lesson that the US wanted to finish Japan quickly with the A-Bombs so that they wouldn't have to rely on Russia's help and wouldn't have to make a peace treaty with their agreement or allow Russia to take Japanese territory. Of course not theironly motivations but part of it...
     
  3. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    And that's exactly what Russia tried to do -- declare war and invade as much Japanese territory as possible as soon as they were certain the war was effectively over.

    People talk about threatening Russia as though it were some horrible conspiracy -- look at what happened to the European countries Russia invaded on the European front...
     
  4. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    Hmm...if i have to choose between invading by the russians or nuked by the americans i would really prefer the invasion. But those brave mothers and childrens surely know that they are died for a higher goal :cool:
     
  5. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    Yeah, it's *truly* a shame that the United States had to resort to bombing cities during World War II. That really brought us down to the level of... EVERYONE ELSE.
     
  6. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    I do not remember that the german Luftwaffe attacking cities with 200.000 refugees (like the allies does in Dresden, but that is another chapter). And that everyone else did it, doesn´t make it better. Or do i miss something there?
     
  7. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    Oh, yeah, sorry, Germany never did *anything* wrong during World War II. The entire war was just a big misunderstanding.

    (Wasn't it a German attack on London which started the entire mass-bombing-of-cities in the first place?)
     
  8. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    Where did I say that? We wanted to play god and get a massive kick in our ass. This experience is missing to the Americans unfortunately.

    And it was Coventry which was bombarded, not London. And this was a mistake, because they want to destroy Industrial area, but the weather was very bad. Okay, this aren´t a Justification, but the bombarding of coventry was nothing against the bombarding of Dresden or Hiroshima.
     
  9. Starkey

    Starkey Avenging Rooster

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    Soon our flag-burning friend Cappelleti will try to prove that the Nazis were the good guys in the war... :rolleyes:
     
  10. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    @Starkey: Sorry, but this was the most idiotical sentence i ever read. I lost many members of my family because the nazis and so i won´t defend them. But the reason that you are the "good guys" shouldn´t justify all what your army done.

    Sorry again about my english....i should buy myself a dictionary... :D
     
  11. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    You, then, would be living proof that a lesson taught and a lesson learned are two very different things. :)
     
  12. Starkey

    Starkey Avenging Rooster

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    Nobody is justifying anything. Wars are bad and everyone who kills does a wrong thing. For me the "good guys" were the Allies for one thousand reasons which I´d have to write a book to point out, but some of the most important are that the Nazis started the war when they had gained a lot of land on treaties already and the Japanese cowardly struck first. They are the ones who started the war and had to be stopped.

    About the a-bombs, I do not approve their use today, but, at the time, consider this: you are the president of a country who lost hundreds of thousands of soldiers, billions of dollars in a war. Your generals come with two options: either you lose much more people and money and take Japan house-by-house, killing lots of civilians in the process or you kill perhaps less civilians and put an end to it. What would you do? Think about the enemy or think about your soldiers, your interests and your economy? If the Nazis had been able to make the bomb they would have instantly used them too.

    I am always reffering to them as "the Nazis", not "the Germans" because the German people is intelligent and kind, but those Nazis should rot in hell.

    p.s. I am not American, but my country did send some 23,000 troops to help free Italy.
     
  13. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    You are right, but there is another thing which i dislike in starlancer (we should come back to the roots, shall we? :D ) In SL the german military reminds me always a bit to the Wehrmacht or at least, how many foreigners want to see them. I know this sounds strange to you, but in my opinion there are many similarities. They´ve got big vessels (our biggest vessel today is an very old destroyer :D) we´ve got fine soldiers (like Stahl, the typical german "Feldwebel") or Steiner (the honorful pilot, like Adolph Galland).
     
  14. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    Yeah... it was awfully offensive of Chris Roberts to give the Germans *powerful ships* and *honorable pilots*. Nothing is more offensive than suggesting that someone is *powerful* and *honorable*!
     
  15. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Vice Admiral

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    Calzone, the German people are good overall, just like everyone else in the world. They were good people in WW II also. They just had an evil leadership. Unfortunately, the only way that evil leadership was going to go away, was the way that it happened. And that was the U.S. kicking the crap out of them. You can argue the strategy of bombing Dresden and other primarily civilian targets all day, but the idiot leadership of Germany wouldn't surrender even when Berlin was about all that wasn't in allied control. Coulda woulda shoulda. You can't re-rack history and see if there was a better way to do something. We did learn from this. Today, we go to extremes to not have ANY civilian casualties, to the point that now 50 civilians killed causes an international outrage.

    One of these days, everyone will have a "We the People..." and then maybe we won't have countries going at each other.

    By the way, thanks, LOAF, for calming me down. I was gonna zorch the guy.
     
  16. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    No it wasn´t a offense to "gave" us big ships. I like big ships like the bremen or the könig (but i really dislike starlancer). But i dislike it, if the typical "Chris Roberts german soldier" was a recreation of a typical "Wehrmachts" soldier. Why he doesn´t bring in the "Waffen-SS" or the "Gestapo" too? (oh, i forgot, he allready done it in WC4, there it was called Black Lance). It makes me ill, when i think about it, that he glorified a war which costs 60 million lifes. :mad:

    There was simply no need to bomb Dresden. Dresden was a city which got nearly 200.000 refugees from the east (they fled from the russians). There was no weapons factory and no fuel area. In my eyes there was no difference between the evil nazis and the allies in this case.
     
  17. Ghost

    Ghost Emperor

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    No, the German only killed millions of persons in camps, burning them, poisoning them, and working like slaves.
     
  18. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    I do not disagree with that..... but that was something i allready said.
     
  19. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    It's a pretty big stretch to say that StarLancer glorifies World War II -- in fact, I would bet that the reason the game makes the Germans and the Japanese 'allies' is to *escape* this idea. It *doesn't* treat Germans as the badguys -- to complain otherwise is just complaining for complainings sake.

    I also think the American media has a very different view of the World War II German soldier than perhaps you do in Europe. Certainly when I lived in France the 'general' feeling was very negative -- but in the US, where civilians were never directly affected by the war, there's a lot more of a sympathetic bent... they're the All Quiet archetype, the poor youth tricked into serving a horrible cause.
     
  20. Quarto

    Quarto Unknown Enemy

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    Heh. The director's commentary to Das Boot also mentions how some Germans were outraged that the movie didn't show German WWII soldiers as monsters. I couldn't understand the logic behind such outrage, and I can't understand your logic, either. Do you truly believe that the Wehrmacht only existed in WWII? The German army had existed longer than united Germany has (it dates back to Prussia). This army, like most armies, has always placed great emphasis on honour and other such things. In that aspect, there is no difference between a 19th century Prussian officer, a WWII German officer, or a present-day German officer. It is bizarre that you would treat the continuation of an honourable tradition as some great insult.

    Furthermore, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Chris Roberts had nothing to do with StarLancer. Why do you insist on ignoring this fact?
     

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