Is Chris Roberts a racism?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Zone' started by Calzone, Jul 5, 2002.

  1. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    After I played StarLancer and Conquest, I became ill because the whole patriotic twaddle. Why doesn´t Chris program good games anymore, but used only racistic plates.
     
  2. Quarto

    Quarto Unknown Enemy

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    I haven't played StarLancer for longer than fifteen minutes, and I haven't played Conquest at all, but both of those are games Roberts had very little control over. On the other hand, Wing Commander 1 was definitely anti-racist, Knight being the prime example.
     
  3. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    Okay, racingist was perhaps the wrong expression. But this patriotic twaddle simply nerves me.

    It becomes clearest with Wing Commander 3. Strictly speaking, the end of the play anything is not anything else but a justification for the atom bomb release over Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    Blair murdered who knows how many billion cats (Mrs., babies, old cats) and feels then like a hero. Madly! And the player is forced to the genocide. Really madly.
     
  4. Royal_Marine

    Royal_Marine Commodore

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    It's amazing what some ppl can make out of nothing, I don't know quite how you've created that twist on the storyline of WC3 but you're way off the mark.

    Also if u wanna discuss Chris Robets go to the Wing Commander forum, this is off-topic [/moderator attitude]
     
  5. Ghost

    Ghost Emperor

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    mmhhh...
    Why the Kilrathi destroyed the Congress in WC3??
    Why?
    Why not the Coliseum or the Arc of Triumph or the Pyramids... :rolleyes:
     
  6. TC

    TC SubCrid

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    Hrm... Being that Wing Commander is basically World War II in space, it's not suprising that it ends with the bombing of the enemy's homeland. I would suggest that it is, however, somewhat more justified than the bombing of Japan because not bombing Kilrah would result in the extinction of the human race.

    Um... that's not something out of nothing... it's quite a justified comparison. The begining of the war is like pearl harbor, the feeling of the series is World War II in space, you've got numerous mentions and similarities between the war with Japanese and the Kilrathi war... Chris Roberts and many of the others involved in the creation of Wing Commander were going for WW II in space.
     
  7. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    Damn, why doesn´t the world speak german :D Okay, in simple sentences (it is late at night :) ).

    @Ghost: I think there is a little difference between a planet and a building.
     
  8. TC

    TC SubCrid

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    What?
     
  9. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    A game where you're fighting an enemy sort of *has* to be patriotic... but none of the games are 'American' patriotic. The crew of the Tiger's Claw was multinational... the StarLancer factino thing was made up of a number of different nations...
     
  10. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    Whats about I-War (or I-War 2)?

    In Starlancer the good guys are really good and the bad boys are really evil. I woulnd´t wonder if the Alliance found out, that the Coalition eat there prisoners (if they take someone). I also wondered if someone would told me, that the coalition eat little children and poisoned Wells. And while the installation (while the admiral speak) i thought that it was Goebbels who is speaking.
     
  11. Ghost

    Ghost Emperor

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    EVIL Mother Russia, China (Democracy) and middle east crazy countries
     
  12. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    ??? What do you want to say to me. Sorry, iam from germany and it is really late so that i couldn´t follow you :D Could you make yourself clear.... a little bit :D
     
  13. Quarto

    Quarto Unknown Enemy

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    Well... a lot of these things depend on how you choose to interpret them. Yes, if you think that WC3 is merely supposed to justify Hiroshima and Nagasaki, then you may be right (if you can make a solid enough argument for it). However, movies and books are very often interpreted differently than what the author had intended.

    Personally, I would say that WC3 does not attempt in any way to justify the bombing of Japan. The storyline never tries to persuade the player that destroying Kilrah is the right thing to do - only that it's necessary. In a way, rather than solving the moral issues people still have about the end of WWII, it asks those questions again, in a much more personal way. Instead of wondering about the morality of a decision that had already been made, you are forced to make the decision yourself.

    Now, as for the Congress and other similar issues... yes, of course there is a certain tendency to make the game 'American'. You could similarly say that the use of the English language makes the game very pro-English. BUt both of those things are only to be expected, because it is a game which relied primarily on sales in America. On the other hand, note that this doesn't mean it's pro-American. Compare it with Independence Day, and you'll see the difference between slightly-Americanised and patriotically pro-American.
     
  14. Ghost

    Ghost Emperor

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    Yeah, ID4 was so re-pro Amercan, and that nice touch of America helping the world :)
     
  15. Calzone

    Calzone Spaceman

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    I think you misunderstand me there. I just said, that it was a bigger crime to destroy a inhabited planet as to destroy a building, even if it was the white house, the Semperoper or something else.

    But what i really dislike is this simple thinking, espeacilly in StarLancer. We are the good guys. We are nice, we are great, we are without any failures and that is the enemy is the ugly bad guy, who is bloodthirsty, who kill defenseless people and who done all those bad things that we wouldn´t ever do. Sorry, i already write this before but i want to come back to the roots. :)
     
  16. Hamlet

    Hamlet Spaceman

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    *Shakes head* This is why people shouldn't think too hard about video games.

    And the topic should be "is Chris Roberts a racist", which he is not.
     
  17. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Spaceman

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    For you people who are skirting around whether or not we were justified in dropping the bomb on Japan, we were. IT was kill 150000 people or a couple million US soldiers, not to mention the Japanese women and children who were drafted into the Japanese "homeland defence."
    And aren't the Kilrathi based more on Rome than Japan, that's what i always thought, and in that case, the humans would be akin to the germanic tribes who destroyed Rome. The germanic tribes destroyed a great civilization and therefore wouldnt' that mean that humans were barbarians that destroyed a great civilization?
     
  18. Hamlet

    Hamlet Spaceman

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    Except the humans didn't destroy a great culture, they just blew up a planet. The Kilrathi were still alive and well afterwards, just homeless.
     
  19. TC

    TC SubCrid

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    Yes, it would... if the Kilrathi bore any more than a passing resemblance to the Roman empire, and if Confed bore some sort of resemblance to random 'barbaric' groups.
     
  20. Viper61

    Viper61 Spaceman

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    I don't think (that is if I'm reading you correctly) that WC is one of those "the Confederation is good, just and never wrong while the Kilrathi/BW/Nephilim are evil and should all be destroyed (I mean there is a whole WC video gae about some of the dark lengths the Confederation was going to to win the war with the Kilrathi). It's something you can't overanalyze. One could view taking on a underpowered foe as evil (say shooting down troop transports and killing by the thousands like we did in WC1). The spies and the fact taht Blair wanted to blow helpless Jazz out of space would suggest that our beloved hero is not a sparkling clean pure specimen of humanity in WC2. WC3 saw the use of military force against civilians by both sides (bioweaps for the kilrathi, T-bombing Killrah for Confed). Video games more often than not don't have the time to set up a wonderful storyline so it gets turned into a us vs them kind of mentality. When the bombs were dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki, it was a primarily military decision based upon how many lives would be lost on both sides. The T-bomb over kilrah was saving the existance of an entire race. When the flyboys got back from the raids over Japan, they were met as heroes. The thing you don't see is the fact that they have to live with themselves after they personally killed 150,000+ people. Are they evil people? Not hardly. Are they pure and perfect? Not hardly. One must do whatever is in their limits of morality to win a war. Central and Allied powers used mustard gas in WWI to kill thousands. Was this moral? Depends. Do you have the luxury of time to debate this question during a war when your getting shot at by people who want to kill you? Not likely. What the games did not show you (and what the novels really excel in, pick them up and read them) is the personal turmoil Blair had before and especially after the T-bomb run. it's one of the explainations for Blairs "lack of enthusiasm" to get out of the wormhole in WCP. He just had had enough, he couldn't live with his transgressions (brought back up during interrogation by the Nephilim) any longer. It's not that the games are "our side good - other side evil", I beleive (like any good novel) they give you enough information to let you make yup your own mind, let you decide how an action would make you feel instead of leading you in a linear line of "you did this you are bad/angry/greiving". Don't just follow what the games give you and say "wow, they were really single minded when it came to this". Branch out a bit, use your own imagination to fill in the gaps with who you are and what your morals tell you.

    Anyway thats my slightly buzzing viewpoint after last call ;). Enjoy ripping it apart and jumping to conclusions about me from what I said :D.

    C-ya
     

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