hey all

No, we don't. It's the *only* canon image of a Hakaga. Like it or lump it, the Hakaga-class looks like a huge carrier variant of the Ralari... and there's no better source (or, for that matter, any other source at all).
 
It'll also be neat to see Eder's interpretation of a Hakaga. There's a glimpse of it in wire-frame in the Standoff screen shots, underneath the launcher. Looks like a big 'ol Ralari. No textures on it, though.

Any comments, Eder?
 
Why on earth are you people referring to the "Wake" class carriers?

That's like calling them all the Tarawa-class.

Simple fact: the only "canon" class name for the Tarawa, as per two long discussions (one of which is still buried in a thread somewhere on here) and according to LOAF is to call them the CVE-class. Wake, Iwo, Crete, Tarawa, Normandy, and Svestapol are ALL potential class names for the CVE class of carriers. Calling them Wake-class is like calling them Tarawa-class, it's certainly a possability, by why mess with canon like that?

Wake is clearly identified in Fleet Action as an individual ship, not a class. For anyone whose wonder on page 97 Paladin is quoted as saying the following (Please note, text contained in /slashes/ is meant to be in italics)

"/Iwo/ and /Wake/ and /Crete/ are clear as well." From the italics and the wording of the sentance (mostly verb tense) this can be read as individual ships. Further, we know from prior text Paladin is calling from CVE-6, Normandy.

Drawing from other novels and pages we know that exactly Five Escort Carriers were transferred to Landreich for the Free Corps Campaign, their names, obviously, are Tarawa, Wake, Iwo Jima (Iwo), Crete, and Normandy. Five names, five ships, not a class.

On a curious side note we know that Tarawa was CVE-8, and Normandy is listed as being CVE-6. This implies (though it's not a firm fact) that Tarawa could not possibly be the name of the class of ships because traditional naming rules for ship class dictates that the first ship name of the class decides the ship name.

This ALLOWS that Wake COULD be the class name, but it does not implicitly state it. In fact, CVE is the only true name we have available for the class of Carriers the Tarawa and the Wake belong to.

In addition, "Jeep" carriers is a title/term and not any kind of official class or designator. So calling them Jeep-class carriers wouldn't be correct either.

Anyway, all that being said, why do people keep calling them Wake class?
 
To weed out anal retentive people on CZ from people who actually know the English language is for communication and not picking nits.
 
I believe my reccomendation to the fan projects was to call them Wake *type*. Somehow that's mutated into class...
 
Jason_Ryock said:
Why on earth are you people referring to the "Wake" class carriers?

Simple fact: the only "canon" class name for the Tarawa, as per two long discussions (one of which is still buried in a thread somewhere on here) and according to LOAF is to call them the CVE-class. Wake, Iwo, Crete, Tarawa, Normandy, and Svestapol are ALL potential class names for the CVE class of carriers. Calling them Wake-class is like calling them Tarawa-class, it's certainly a possability, by why mess with canon like that?
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I'm working on a mod, and I'm the author of the first (and still the only, to my knowledge) Tarawa-type CVE 3d model out there. And I made that model for my mod (yes, it's incredible, isn't it?)... And my mod would look more stupid than the average CZ poster if I put a "CVE-Class" or "Wake/Tarawa/Whatever-Type" label in the tech library, right next to the "Confederation-class" and "Jutland-class" and whatever labels. Not naming the carrier in the game wouldn't do anyone any good... So basically, I think some people call it Wake class because at some point I decided, out of sheer affection for the likes of Fidel and Stalin, to say that my model is a Wake-class CVE. :)

Of course, I don't make WC canon, so people are free to make up their own different names or insist in using terms like "the class to which the Tarawa belonged" or "the class which participated in this or that event" or "those crates which look like the Sevastopol" or whatever... but I think some people just find it easier, in these cases, to go with the names fan projects are adopting.

(Also, a small disclaimer... if anyone feels like setting everything right in the world, please leave my work at the bottom of your list)

Bandit LOAF said:
I believe my reccomendation to the fan projects was to call them Wake *type*. Somehow that's mutated into class...
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Such a recomendation would make no sense, though, unless you also recommended fan projects to call them Tarawa type, Sevastopol type, Crete type, Iwo type, Normandy type... I don't think anyone ever had a problem figuring out which *type* these carriers are :p

overmortal said:
It'll also be neat to see Eder's interpretation of a Hakaga. There's a glimpse of it in wire-frame in the Standoff screen shots, underneath the launcher. Looks like a big 'ol Ralari. No textures on it, though.

Any comments, Eder?
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Yeah. Check the "old news" page on the site. I had some textured screenshots too, but I've deleted those from the server already (I just used them to get feedback on the texturing which was then in progress... now that I have the necessary feedback I won't show the model to anyone who's not playing mission 6 of the winning path, or subsequent missions :p)
 
This is sad...very sad...

...you don't even know what Wake is. It has nothing the hell to do with Stalin and Fidel, Wake Island was an island in WWII...someone MISSED the OBVIOUS Reference to the fact that CVE Carriers are named for amphbious battles fought in history...like The Battle for Wake Island.

Why doesn't everyone respect history more?
 
Eh, you're the one who missed my point entirely. My point is that I decided to say the model is Wake class because that's what I want it to be. I say that's what it is, and that's what it will be as far as Standoff and that model are concerned. Hence, not open to opinions, hence Stalin and Fidel. (It was more of a joke and a reference to the good old days when I edited the results of polls and watched Delance flame me for doing so, really...)

Anyway, my new point is: I have more knowledge in history than most people here, so I really won't stand here and watch some random guy tell me to respect it. Don't take me for a stupid 12 year old kid until you can help embarrasing yourself like one.

Am I the only one who's getting sick of the whole damn community?
 
Jason_Ryock said:
This is sad...very sad...

...you don't even know what Wake is. It has nothing the hell to do with Stalin and Fidel, Wake Island was an island in WWII...someone MISSED the OBVIOUS Reference to the fact that CVE Carriers are named for amphbious battles fought in history...like The Battle for Wake Island.

Why doesn't everyone respect history more?
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Tarawa was also an amphibious battle in WW2; I think was a little hasty to say that Eder didn't know his history just because he didn't care if someone wanted to call them Wake-class or CVE-type or whatever.

Why doesn't everyone respect each other more?
 
Pois é.
why do some people online feel this need to debase others? I bet this kind of guy wouldn't be so bold in real life.

All I can say, Eder, is that you are doing a good job, and to ignore these people.
 
*L* I'm just as bold IRL, something my teachers much appreciate. As for being a jackass, well, I find it rather ironic that asking about someone elses obvious mistake makes me a jackass when the person who made the mistake's argument says he's right because he compares himself to someone like Stalin and Fidel, which I personally don't find very funny.

I used to imagine that WC Fan Projects held themselves to a higherlevel of excellancy, instead, just like fan sites who can't find a name, they simply pick a name of the class and slap it on there for lack of any concrete, to be better then the fan sites they're imitating, simply by using a differant name.

Frankly, I don't understand why you see it necessary to debase me by calling me a jackass, and discounting my opinion simply because I am a "non-member" of this place.

Your opinions have circulated amoung your elitist group so tightly for so long that they need some re-interpretation from objective sources, as opposed to from each of you, who have heard them all so many times you simply accept the things people say as being factual simply because the person saying them has many many many posts.

I would submit that I am not the jackass for challenging an unsupport opinion, but that you are the jackasses for accepting it.
 
WTF?
I usually disagree with people here. I've been debating WC with them for some 6 years! I've been a pain in LOAF's and Crid's neck for a looong time. And now I'm an elitist?
It really pains me to see a pompous self-righteous fool like you came here and start slandering a guy who works a hell lot so that we can have ANY wing commander to play on our pcs? Hell, I don't care if he calls the damn ship the "jason sucks" class, If that's the ONLY way I can ever see a CVE on my monitor...

I don't always agree with Eder, though I never directly clashed with him... But this is silly.

If you're some kind of WC Jesus, who came here to show us (and I say us in a very loose sense, seeing that we disagree in a hundred points) the errors in our way, you can try and make a COMPLETE, WORKING fucking campaign in the WCU like Eder has helped make.

Now go bother someone else.
 
Such a recomendation would make no sense, though, unless you also recommended fan projects to call them Tarawa type, Sevastopol type, Crete type, Iwo type, Normandy type... I don't think anyone ever had a problem figuring out which *type* these carriers are
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I'm mixed up - I'm thinking of the Sheffield-type discussions. My claim regarding the CVEs was that they were one of five possible classes: Crete, Gallipoli, Iwo Jima, Saipan and Wake. In the absense of any other information - and the desire to have a specified class name for a project - Wake-class is certainly acceptable.
 
Jason_Ryock said:
*L* I'm just as bold IRL, something my teachers much appreciate. As for being a jackass, well, I find it rather ironic that asking about someone elses obvious mistake makes me a jackass when the person who made the mistake's argument says he's right because he compares himself to someone like Stalin and Fidel, which I personally don't find very funny.

I would submit that I am not the jackass for challenging an unsupport opinion, but that you are the jackasses for accepting it.
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Jason_Ryock said:
This is sad...very sad...

...you don't even know what Wake is. It has nothing the hell to do with Stalin and Fidel, Wake Island was an island in WWII...someone MISSED the OBVIOUS Reference to the fact that CVE Carriers are named for amphbious battles fought in history...like The Battle for Wake Island.

Why doesn't everyone respect history more?
Click to expand...

award.jpg
 
Jason_Ryock said:
This is sad...very sad...

...you don't even know what Wake is. It has nothing the hell to do with Stalin and Fidel, Wake Island was an island in WWII...someone MISSED the OBVIOUS Reference to the fact that CVE Carriers are named for amphbious battles fought in history...like The Battle for Wake Island.

Why doesn't everyone respect history more?
Click to expand...

Uh.... this was pointed out before.

As noted in the novel, the Tarawa-style escorts were all named after amphibious assaults and battles involving similar actions - Gallipoli, Iwo Jima, Leyte Gulf, Saipan, and Sebastopol among them.

Last edited by Haesslich on 11-30-2003 at 13:24.
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Though I screwed up the Leyte Gulf reference. Next time, READ the thread, huh? It's called 'research'. You need to do that for things in something we call 'high school' and then 'university'.


:rolleyes:
 
I used to imagine that WC Fan Projects held themselves to a higherlevel of excellancy,
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Why did you imagine this? 90% of Fan Projects are just stream of conciousness 'wouldn't it be neat if...'s that happen to be mailed to news@wcnews.com. If you're simply referring to the 'real' fan projects (the ones that actually materialize - UE, Standoff, etc.) then I still completely fail to see your point - by their very nature they are *not* bound by the Wing Commander canon... since they're telling non-canon stories. UE blew up the Intrepid and gave the Union Bengal carriers (AFAIK) - that's certainly not canon... but it's necessary to expand on what is stated in order to tell a *fan* story.

To complain about the class names for the CVEs is even crazier - since that's not even technically a contradiction. Having a name for the CVEs is necessary to make the games ship database look 'real' - and in my book, they did a heck of a good job by picking one of the five options that's a reasonable possible choice for the name.

instead, just like fan sites who can't find a name, they simply pick a name of the class and slap it on there for lack of any concrete, to be better then the fan sites they're imitating, simply by using a differant name.
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Eder doesn't have any concrete? As a native English speaker, I'm completely at a loss with regards to the meaning of this sentence (?). How do fan sites play into any of this?

Frankly, I don't understand why you see it necessary to debase me by calling me a jackass, and discounting my opinion simply because I am a "non-member" of this place.

Your opinions have circulated amoung your elitist group so tightly for so long that they need some re-interpretation from objective sources, as opposed to from each of you, who have heard them all so many times you simply accept the things people say as being factual simply because the person saying them has many many many posts.
Click to expand...

See, here's your problem. Eder doesn't like you because you're being an asshole to him - not because he's part of a secret group that's out to get you.

(No, I'm not discounting the existence of cliques - I'm certainly in one... but our most terrible power is the ability to grill a good burger, and we certainly don't sit around plotting doom for a CZ Poster of the Day. The lesson here is simple: get over yourself.)

(You know what else? My closest friends, WC-wise, are people who I've met because we've disagreed - they're people I've debated WC with. There's not a huge collective of people who agree with eachother. Chris Reid and I have been pals since we were at each others throats over what year WCIV took place (in 1996, it was less clear)...)

If your reply had been "I think you're wrong - it's not Wake class because", we'd all have taken you seriously... instead of whatever childish rant about how everyone but you was stupid because they didn't appreciate history or somesuch.

I would submit that I am not the jackass for challenging an unsupport opinion, but that you are the jackasses for accepting it.
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You're not a jackass because you challeneged {Eder's} opinions - you're a jackass because of the *way* you challenged his opinion.
 
Re: Tarawa/Clydesdale... sure the two ships the Tarawa seems to be protecting fit the Clydesdales well enough, but are those the landing craft or the actual transport that the Marines rolled in on? Logic says more likely the first as theyre only 70 metres long, extremely skinney, and so depressingly weak that they can be downed with one missile (HS or DF).
 
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