Has Chris Roberts ever been in this forum?

[Quarto]

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
If the *movie* were responsible for EA never wanting to do another WC game... why would they try to do one *after* it came out? There was no corresponding firing-of-people to go along with the movie failing in theaters...

I'm not saying the movie is the sole factor, or even that it is the main factor. All I'm saying is that if you're going to blame FS2, (SL and Tachyon can't be blamed at all, in fact - they came after POL's final cancellation), you have to blame the movie too, because its failure would have a similar effect. FS2 is a space sim which didn't sell very well, and thus was a reflection on the popularity of the genre as a whole. But the WC movie was a direct reflection of the popularity of the WC franchise in particular.

Again, just to make my point of view clear, I'm not trying to say that the WC movie is the sole factor responsible for the lack of interest in WC. Rather, I'm sick of hearing people blame FS2 and other space sims while pretending that the movie had no effect at all.

 

[KrisV]

Originally posted by Quarto
But the WC movie was a direct reflection of the popularity of the WC franchise in particular.

How do you figure that?

For one thing, a good deal of the hard core of Wing Commander fans went to see it. Most people who have played Wing Commander games however are casual gamers. Did they even know there was a Wing Commander movie? It received little advertising, and only had a short run in theatres. Most of the people who saw the movie were probably your average movie-goer. The hundreds of thousands of people who have enjoyed a Wing Commander game and who would gladly pick up the latest release don't necessarily know or care about a Wing Commander movie.

 

[Quarto]

Hmm, I definitely made a mistake in that sentence... the movie is not necessarily a direct reflection of the franchise's popularity, however, as far as market research would be concerned, it would be considered thus, because it's the most recent big WC product. This makes it the most natural source of information about the popularity of the brand, since checking an older product would be rather pointless except perhaps to study long-term trends.

Furthermore, the movie would affect the casual gamers. Difficult to say how much, but it would - inevitably, there would be people who haven't heard of the game series (similarly, many people never heard of WC until they bought WCP) but who know the WC movie from reviews or because they saw it. These people are then likely to identify the game as merchandise for a bad movie, rather than the continuation of a successful series. And the WC movie had more advertising than, say the original Star Wars. In that case, word-of-mouth after the release was the most effective advertising possible. Since word-of-mouth also works for bad movies, a lot of people have indeed heard of the movie.

 

[Wedge009]

Uh, I didn't go out of my way to see the WCM at the cinema... but then, I'm not a regular movie-goer - I still haven't seen Episode II...

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Wing Commander pretty much slipped past the radar -- nobody saw it. It had pretty much no effect on anything... and, again, it can't have been responsible for cancelling POL as the action which came after the movie was *ressurecting* POL.

 

[Elric]

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Wing Commander pretty much slipped past the radar -- nobody saw it. It had pretty much no effect on anything... and, again, it can't have been responsible for cancelling POL as the action which came after the movie was *ressurecting* POL.

It may not have been the direct cause of the cancellation, I'm willing to bet there were more than a few reasons. But I'd have a hard time believing that the during the discussion on whether to continue or kill it the movie's failure did not come up at least once. And had the movie been successful, I'll bet the execs at EA would have been more likely to funnel money into the project since the appeal of the movie would have drawn more interest than the "hundreds of thousands of people" that are into the WC series.

 

[Jumper]

Would we really WANT POL

UO may be a hit, but the latest EA MMP game, Motor City Online...ummm...

I'm a dedicated MCO player, but the support is lacking, the game lacks content for someone who has been playing it for more then a month, and basically it is only a shadow of what it could be. It was released buggy and half-done, and we have all of FIVE developers working to squash bugs and keep the game running. They havn't been able to fix lag issues with FOUR people in a race in the six months since release - at least one person lags out per race - fun huh? NASCAR series does 10+ player MP races with little or no lag from what I hear.

I'm kinda glad that we didn't see POL, because it would have been released around the same time as MCO, probably would have suffered from the same lack of attention on EAs part, resulting in a game much below the quality of other WC games. I'd rather wait five years and see it done RIGHT then see something like MCO where are lucky to see a patch fixing bugs and adding maybe 3 or 4 new cars every MONTH.

Be patient people, we will see a new WC game yet.

 

[Marcml30]

Re: Would we really WANT POL

Originally posted by Jumper
I'm kinda glad that we didn't see POL, because it would have been released around the same time as MCO, probably would have suffered from the same lack of attention on EAs part, resulting in a game much below the quality of other WC games.

Actually, I wasn't that excited about POL to begin with. I've never gotten into the MMP games for various reasons: 1) Cheaters (DIABLO is a perfect example of this) and 2) Lack of story. When I play the game I want to immerse myself in the story and characters. WC allowed me to do this. That's not to say that I didn't enjoy going online and shooting down a few real people with the Red Baron II flight sim. But it's not the same as being anxious to get home from work just so you can fly another WC mission and see what happens to the hero next. Playing WC was like reading a great book - it was hard to put down.

 

[RFBurns]

Originally posted by KrisV
Reid to Media: "That Movie Sucked"
At a recent press conference called by Chris "Crid" Reid, he told the associated press: "I'm sorry about everything I've said -- the movie sucked. Freddie Prinze Jr. was awful in his role, they should have used Mark Hamill! He played a 20 year old in Star Wars, 20 years ago, so it makes sense to me that he can play a 20 year old today." Reid went on to rant about the low quality of the special effects, the cheap hole-ridden plot and the awful changes to the established universe. Reid himself summed it all up best: "In conclusion, I'm really, really sorry I ever suggested that anybody ever go see 'She's All That'."
[LOAF]

Does anyone have a transcript of the press conference?

Very, very interesting. I enjoyed the movie. I would like to have seen more dogfighting action and more Kilrathi scenes, like in the FMV's of the games. The effects were fine given the budget of the project, and as far as the actors go, well I was surprised that there were two old favorites in the moive from the FMV's in Privateer 2, giving the movie a "resonance" of being in the WC Universe. But of course, that would not apply to anyone who has not played Privateer 2.

I dont think the moive "sucked", but it certianly was not a box office winner. At least the Wing Commander movie did not try to become a "clone" to other space movies, similar to how "Masters of the Universe" tried to look like the first "Star Wars".

RFB
The Anomalies Network TEM forum moderator

 

[NoRemorse]

IMO cancellations are linked with "big bucks"...

Well, can u tell me if Allegiance has a great success ?

John

 

[Michael_A]

I've never gotten into the MMP games for various reasons

I agree, I only have an hour or two each night to play a game. So I am more interested in the story. Please don't flame me! I do enjoy an occansional frag fest. I would prefer a deeply immersive story that I could follow at my own pace rather than a free for all blood bath where I have to wait for my teammates to login and such.

The single player story is where Wing Commander excelled. I could go home and fly a mission on my lunch hour and may not play again for a couple of day's. The next time I fire it up it is there.

 

[LeHah]

Originally posted by RFBurns
At least the Wing Commander movie did not try to become a "clone" to other space movies, similar to how "Masters of the Universe" tried to look like the first "Star Wars".

Masters Of The Universe looked NOTHING like Star Wars. Return Of The Jedi on the other hand...

 

[RFBurns]

Originally posted by LeHah


Masters Of The Universe looked NOTHING like Star Wars. Return Of The Jedi on the other hand...

Hmm, I beg to differ. The opening scene with all those armed guys standing around in black "stormtrooper" looking outfits seemed like a "copy cat" to me. Even the music, although different, has a similar sound to the Star Wars theme.

Of course it looked nothing like Star Wars, but it darn sure looked like it was a mere cheap clone!

RFB
The Anomalies Network TEM forum moderator

 

[Quarto]

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Wing Commander pretty much slipped past the radar -- nobody saw it. It had pretty much no effect on anything... and, again, it can't have been responsible for cancelling POL as the action which came after the movie was *ressurecting* POL.

Are you aware of the vast contradiction between the first and second part of the above post?

 

[Bandit LOAF]

No, I'm not.

No one saw the movie doesn't contradict with the fact that Privateer was *ressurected* after it came out. I *never* claimed that the latter was the result of the former...

 

[LeHah]

Originally posted by RFBurns
Hmm, I beg to differ. The opening scene with all those armed guys standing around in black "stormtrooper" looking outfits seemed like a "copy cat" to me. Even the music, although different, has a similar sound to the Star Wars theme.

Of course it looked nothing like Star Wars, but it darn sure looked like it was a mere cheap clone!

First off, Stormtroopers were white. Death Star Techs were black. Slight difference there buddy. Yes, Skeletor's minions looked like Stormtroopers, but the movie looked nothing like Star Wars. Skeletor looks more like Palpatine, considering the cloak and the bad lightning effects. It looks more like Return Of The Jedi. Except 3/4ths of the movie is in Suburban Southern Cali.

The music is based more off of John Williams "Superman" and Holsts's "Mars: The Bringer Of War".

You can't really blame MotU for trying. The whole line was made because Kenner couldn't market the Conan The Barbarian figures they made for the 1982 movie and had to push em some other way. And, in the end, the Special Effects supervisor... er, I think it was Richard Edlund, worked on the original Star Wars Trilogy.

 

[RFBurns]

Originally posted by LeHah


First off, Stormtroopers were white. Death Star Techs were black. Slight difference there buddy. Yes, Skeletor's minions looked like Stormtroopers, but the movie looked nothing like Star Wars. Skeletor looks more like Palpatine, considering the cloak and the bad lightning effects. It looks more like Return Of The Jedi. Except 3/4ths of the movie is in Suburban Southern Cali.

The music is based more off of John Williams "Superman" and Holsts's "Mars: The Bringer Of War".

You can't really blame MotU for trying. The whole line was made because Kenner couldn't market the Conan The Barbarian figures they made for the 1982 movie and had to push em some other way. And, in the end, the Special Effects supervisor... er, I think it was Richard Edlund, worked on the original Star Wars Trilogy.

I think someone took offense when I said Masters of the Universe is a cheap clone.

Obviously, clone movies or games are NOT like their counterparts. To me anyway, as I stated from the begining, IMO, that movie MotU, seemed like a cheap attempt to put itself on the level of Star Wars. No I dont blame MotU for trying. I think it just came out at a bad time during the Star Wars craze. Anyone have the reviews for that movie? We can let the reviews speak for themselves I guess!

RFB
The Anomalies Network TEM forum moderator

 

[Mav23]

Besides the point of Masters of the Universe being a clone or not, was the movie any good? I never saw it, and I thought I saw something about a remake somewhere, but I could be wrong.


P.S.
hey RFBurns... when did you come back? Nice to see you here again.

 

[Quarto]

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
No one saw the movie doesn't contradict with the fact that Privateer was *ressurected* after it came out. I *never* claimed that the latter was the result of the former...

You seemed to imply it.
Either way, the movie did *not* slip past the radar, and that's easy enough to see just by taking a trip through the CIC's own news archives. It got really bad reviews, and people avoided it like the plague at the cinema, but it had a lot of video rentals. Therefore, people have heard about it. And people didn't like it. Plus, do not underestimate the power of word-of-mouth - it remains the most effective form of advertising known to mankind. Ask yourself how many people didn't see it because they heard about it from friends.

In short - had Origin expected the movie to have a positive impact on the brand, they would not have cancelled POL just before the movie's release. If it didn't have a positive impact, it had a negative impact. The later resurrection does not prove that it had no impact at all, because there is no such thing as 'no impact at all'. A $30-40 million product 'slips under the radar', you say? Well, I'm sure that would give an Origin executive a lot of confidence about a $1-2 million product. I don't know why POL was resurrected, but I'm willing to bet that this was *in spite of* rather than because of or regardless of the movie.

 

[Frosty]

Originally posted by Quarto
You seemed to imply it.

Or perhaps you seemed to infer it from a statement where it wasn't.

Either way, the movie did *not* slip past the radar, and that's easy enough to see just by taking a trip through the CIC's own news archives.

Every movie recieves reviews. The fact that the CIC has managed to ferret out a few reviews on the web does not mean it caught the attention of the world.

It got really bad reviews, and people avoided it like the plague at the cinema, but it had a lot of video rentals.

Obviously, since lots of folks rented it, it's logical to assume that nobody knew it was playing in their theatre. You're not going to ignore a film because some dork told you it sucked only to go and rent it when it shows up on VHS.[/B][/QUOTE]Therefore, people have heard about it. And people didn't like it.[/B][/QUOTE]Of course! If lots of people rent the video at Blockbuster, that must mean that nobody liked it!

Plus, do not underestimate the power of word-of-mouth - it remains the most effective form of advertising known to mankind.

I'm sure that revelation would shock lots of companies that have been spending millions on television advertising.

Ask yourself how many people didn't see it because they heard about it from friends.

And myself answers... nobody?

In short - had Origin expected the movie to have a positive impact on the brand, they would not have cancelled POL just before the movie's release.

Boy, there's a brilliant declaration. Perhaps the movie didn't even enter their minds. Obviously, this is proved true since POL came back after the movie was released.

If it didn't have a positive impact, it had a negative impact.

Or, like, none at all.

A $30-40 million product 'slips under the radar', you say?

As if cost really had anything to do with it. Unless it's setting cost records and getting on the news for it, chances are people have no clue how much it had cost to produce.

I don't know why POL was resurrected, but I'm willing to bet that this was *in spite of* rather than because of or regardless of the movie.

Of course, of course. Origin was watching the movie closely and, according to you, expected it to harm the brand image, so they cancelled the game. Then, the movie debuts and, according to you, harms the brand image, after which POL is resurrected.

Naturally, it makes complete sense to totally reverse a business decision once that decision appears to be justified... in the idiot-universe where Quarto lives.

It's plain to see that the movie had no effect on POL's fate.