Game Ports/Where did WCM go wrong?
- Thread starter Marcml30
- Start date
- Status
To reply to the general wave of discussion going on around here.I for one, absolutely, had no problem with the minor differences in the movie.Like I said,I liked even the pilgrim thing.Little things like changes in the characters,differences in the ships,or some plot differences do not even bother me.I don't think that these differences brought the film down however.The portion of fans who even cared ,I'm betting, were small.It was ,like I said, a weak film.I don't want to be seen as someone who is always just going around bashing films and such,but when I went to watch the film,it just was not all that much fun.Episode 1 might not have lived up to some peoples ideas and mabe was to silly,but I had thoroughly enjoyed watching it.It was fun.
Once again I want to say that I'm not some kind of hypo-critical fan who bashes everything,but I think the Wing movie was not as good as it could have been.It is not so much the movie that was the problem,but just to know that there was so much potential in the franchise.Marketing is very important,if the film had gotten proper marketing it would have done better.However, even without marketing ,if a film is great the word will spread.As for the issue of World War 2 in space,all the Wing games(and books)were obviously inspired by it.At it's core ,it is more classic war saga than science fiction.However, there is a difference between being inspired by and actualy being World War 2 in space.This did not bother me,but it was sneered upon by many casual viewers.I think that if Chris Roberts can make a succesfil film , someday he will make another Wing film.Hopefully an incredible one at that.If he does than, I think he should create an original story sever the ties with Blair.That way he can show some real imagination,appeal to the casual viewer,and still not contradict existing material.
[Edited by Bhaktadil on 07-25-2001 at 09:35]
Once again I want to say that I'm not some kind of hypo-critical fan who bashes everything,but I think the Wing movie was not as good as it could have been.It is not so much the movie that was the problem,but just to know that there was so much potential in the franchise.Marketing is very important,if the film had gotten proper marketing it would have done better.However, even without marketing ,if a film is great the word will spread.As for the issue of World War 2 in space,all the Wing games(and books)were obviously inspired by it.At it's core ,it is more classic war saga than science fiction.However, there is a difference between being inspired by and actualy being World War 2 in space.This did not bother me,but it was sneered upon by many casual viewers.I think that if Chris Roberts can make a succesfil film , someday he will make another Wing film.Hopefully an incredible one at that.If he does than, I think he should create an original story sever the ties with Blair.That way he can show some real imagination,appeal to the casual viewer,and still not contradict existing material.
[Edited by Bhaktadil on 07-25-2001 at 09:35]
Pedro
Admiral
I think you find you're in the minority there, I know enough people in the Wing Commander community to know people would have been far happier without these very MAJOR differences, I mean really what were the similarities apart from the names that couldn't have applied to any old sci fi film.
The thing with the games is they may have been heavily inspired by WW2 but they didn't simply try to recreate it, the film really did just seem like they plucked out submarines and put them in space.
Chris Roberts: "that was before I'd even pitched him on my WWII in space concept"
The thing with the games is they may have been heavily inspired by WW2 but they didn't simply try to recreate it, the film really did just seem like they plucked out submarines and put them in space.
Chris Roberts: "that was before I'd even pitched him on my WWII in space concept"
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Pedro: Maybe thats the look Chris wanted all along and couldn't achive it with computers? Or maybe he just decided that older Confed ships look like late-20th Century naval ships and fighters.
In any case, we as a group have little right to bitch like little girls about the aesthic value of the WC movie. People, let it go! How often does a game get a movie made after it? 4? 5? Just be happy we got something, even if it is weak.
Who cares if it doesn't look like previous incarnations of the WC universe! It looks like functioning military hardware, thats the reason it looks like that.
In any case, we as a group have little right to bitch like little girls about the aesthic value of the WC movie. People, let it go! How often does a game get a movie made after it? 4? 5? Just be happy we got something, even if it is weak.
Who cares if it doesn't look like previous incarnations of the WC universe! It looks like functioning military hardware, thats the reason it looks like that.
Pedro
Admiral
Well the point is really what Chris Roberts wanted, if he wanted the film to suceed he should have been gearing it towards what other people would want.
As for being happy theres a WC film hellayeah but we do have the right to express our views on it, its a sad state of affairs when a consumer just accepts what hes given without even commenting
We have views for a reason and these forums are a place to express those views, don't be afraid of criticism.
As for being happy theres a WC film hellayeah but we do have the right to express our views on it, its a sad state of affairs when a consumer just accepts what hes given without even commenting
We have views for a reason and these forums are a place to express those views, don't be afraid of criticism.True,a lot of fans did not like it,but the majority of fans,who are not as hardcore,did not even care.I know of some people who have been fans of the series from the start and didn't mind any of it.Your correct in saying that a lot of,hardcore, fans did not like it,but in movie numbers this is not much.
As for the World War 2 thing,maybe I didn't clarify my position enough,because that is what I was saying.I was saying that the games have all been inspired by World War2 without becoming World War 2,but the movie,I think, went a little to far and this hurt it.It did not bother me,but it was scorned by the mainstream public.
Pedro
Admiral
No, no I think I made myself very clear on this point earlier, I am not talking about 1 or 2 friends I got to play wing commander I am talking about around ten, the majority only played WCProphecy to the end, at best as far back as WC3 because only the hardcore fans will fork out for the Kilrathi Saga, playing one or two of the games does not make them hardcore fans but the consensus on the film was pretty much, eh, it was ok, wasn't very wing commandery, and I ended up having to explain what the plot was before it was cut. But for the majority atleast they all really enjoyed the games and how far back I got them to play depened on when I introduced them to the series more than anything (people are more reluctant to play older games)
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Your problem is that you're somehow assuming that your group of friends -- whose opinions YOU shaped (you just said you were the reason they played the games, didn't you?) are somehow representative of the entire world.
They're *not*.
Aside: In these movie-fans versus non-movie-fans discussions, why do -- despite the lack of any evidence to support such claims -- the non-movie-fans *repeatedly* insist that they're in some sort of majority? See above!
They're *not*.
Aside: In these movie-fans versus non-movie-fans discussions, why do -- despite the lack of any evidence to support such claims -- the non-movie-fans *repeatedly* insist that they're in some sort of majority? See above!
Pedro
Admiral
Actually I didn't shape their opinions on the slightest
and I'm getting a little tired of your opinions of the average WC player LOAF
Mainly when they asked for a game to borrow I suggested a WC game as simple as that, as for the movie they saw it when I did I imported it from the states and invited some friends round (not all of them admittedly) and I was actually the one defending it, to this day I do, but not as a WC film.
There are a few people who know I am a WC maniac now but I didn't used to be, I just said hey this is a really great game try it, and they did, and they agreed with me, and if you knew how rarely people agreed with me (they certainly don't do so to meep me happy
) you'd know that was something of an accomplishment.
and I'm getting a little tired of your opinions of the average WC player LOAF
Mainly when they asked for a game to borrow I suggested a WC game as simple as that, as for the movie they saw it when I did
I imported it from the states and invited some friends round (not all of them admittedly) and I was actually the one defending it, to this day I do, but not as a WC film.There are a few people who know I am a WC maniac now but I didn't used to be, I just said hey this is a really great game try it, and they did, and they agreed with me, and if you knew how rarely people agreed with me (they certainly don't do so to meep me happy
) you'd know that was something of an accomplishment.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
You're getting tired of my *opinions*? I will now use the obvious arrow to show what you should do-
>>>>--obvious-----|> STOP REPLYING TO MY POSTS.
Anyway, *of course* you had an impact on your friends opinions of the movie -- you told them what you thought, didn't you? And you just a moment ago claimed that it was hard to *convince* people to play old games... clearly you didn't just 'suggest' something... your story doesn't hold water.
>>>>--obvious-----|> STOP REPLYING TO MY POSTS.
Anyway, *of course* you had an impact on your friends opinions of the movie -- you told them what you thought, didn't you? And you just a moment ago claimed that it was hard to *convince* people to play old games... clearly you didn't just 'suggest' something... your story doesn't hold water.
Pedro
Admiral
Oh and I'm not a non movie fan but its something I hear so many times that if non movie fans AREN'T in the majority then the divide slices pretty much down the middle and I fail to see how using a liscene helps when you aren't even keep a good chunk of the original fans happy.
IMO there are people who will defend ANYTHING to do with Wing Commander, just like any other thing they might be a fan of (ever been caught in the middle of a sony vs sega vs nintendo vs xbox discussion?)
I like all the games, they are the main stream stuff and when there is a contridiction between games and books I will take the games (except Privateer 2, REALLY LOVE that game but its another case of a product which could have been set in another universe and no one would have noticed).
I enjoyed almost all the books, especially False Colors, End Run and Freedom Flight, I even liked the cartoon but all these things just felt like they were in the same universe, the movie did not and a lot of people do feel that way, so if its only 40% I don't really care, thats too many.
I have no doubt a number of Wing Commander fans would accept and sing praises off anything with the name Wing Commander stamped on it but I don't need everyone to agree with me just to feel justified in my opinion, everyone is entitled to them
IMO there are people who will defend ANYTHING to do with Wing Commander, just like any other thing they might be a fan of (ever been caught in the middle of a sony vs sega vs nintendo vs xbox discussion?)
I like all the games, they are the main stream stuff and when there is a contridiction between games and books I will take the games (except Privateer 2, REALLY LOVE that game but its another case of a product which could have been set in another universe and no one would have noticed).
I enjoyed almost all the books, especially False Colors, End Run and Freedom Flight, I even liked the cartoon but all these things just felt like they were in the same universe, the movie did not and a lot of people do feel that way, so if its only 40% I don't really care, thats too many.
I have no doubt a number of Wing Commander fans would accept and sing praises off anything with the name Wing Commander stamped on it but I don't need everyone to agree with me just to feel justified in my opinion, everyone is entitled to them
Pedro
Admiral
Nitpicking at someones wording is fairly pointless and very irritating and i think that was the purpose of it, no?
It all boils down to exactly the same point, you don't have faith in people to make their own decisions, no one is going to listen to what I tell them, either they like something or they don't, I don't change my opinions on whether I LIKE something or not just because someone disagrees with me, and I wouldn't be friends with people as shallow as that either.
Whether or not you enjoy something rests solely on your own opinions.
Also let me point out that yes this means I'm not trying to change anybody elses opinions on the movie but take a look through this thread, its not exactly full of people jumping up and down at the amazing experience they had seeing their favourite video game series brought to the big screen.
[Edited by Pedro on 07-25-2001 at 14:21]
It all boils down to exactly the same point, you don't have faith in people to make their own decisions, no one is going to listen to what I tell them, either they like something or they don't, I don't change my opinions on whether I LIKE something or not just because someone disagrees with me, and I wouldn't be friends with people as shallow as that either.
Whether or not you enjoy something rests solely on your own opinions.
Also let me point out that yes this means I'm not trying to change anybody elses opinions on the movie but take a look through this thread, its not exactly full of people jumping up and down at the amazing experience they had seeing their favourite video game series brought to the big screen.
[Edited by Pedro on 07-25-2001 at 14:21]
The_Gneech
Spaceman
With all due respect, this board is the first place I've encountered movie-fans, whereas finding non-movie-fans is pretty easy. I suspect that has a lot to do with the assumption of at least a fairly large group of people who didn't care for it. I don't know about majority, but whether it's a majority or not is pretty irrelevant. It was large enough to do damage. A more devoted fanbase cheering for the movie and lining up to see it multiple times and buy the merchandise, rather than a reaction that could be described as "mixed" at best, would surely have helped the movie be more successful, if only because people otherwise unfamiliar with WC might have wondered what all the fuss was about, and checked the movie out themselves.
I am a longtime fan of the WC games, starting with WC2. I have every WC game except Priv2, and multiple copies of a few of them. I gladly shelled out $60 for WC3 based on its previews, and then another $100 for the movie-can edition again a few months later. I've poured a lot of money into the WC franchise (on a personal level). But the previews for the movie turned me off; the posters for the movie turned me off; trying to watch the movie when it came out on cable _really_ turned me off. I didn't pay see it in the theatres, I didn't buy the merchandise, and I won't be buying the DVD. That's a bunch of money (again on a personal level) I won't be giving them. And I can only assume, based on what I've heard in conversations with other WC-fans, that a fair number of people had the same experience.
How do I know Star Wars was popular? Most of the people I've talked to about it, who are into such things, liked it and went to see it or bought the video, have the toys, etc. I use that same logic to come to the conclusion that the WC movie was _not_ popular. It seems a reasonable conclusion to me.
Find me a large army of previously silent movie-fans, and I'll be happy to revise that conclusion.
-The Gneech
The large group of WCM fans (outside this board) have combined with those that loved SUPERNOVA to rave about both films at another chat board.
From this can we assume that all of your friends (whom you told you liked the movie) enjoyed it? And, for those that did enjoy it, after hearing your review, can we say that you shaped their opinion of it?
Not in the same universe!?! Say whatever you want about the quality of the movie, but there is no doubt it was part of the WCU - now being a part of the WC timeline/canon - well that's debatable and has been argued many many many times. The only series-Movie conversion that I've seen pulled off with any success (in keeping to the timeline) is Star Trek - but even they probably had a few holes.
Frosty
a full fledged GF
That makes no sense.
You think you're so clever, don't you?From this can we assume that all of your friends (whom you told you liked the movie) enjoyed it? And, for those that did enjoy it, after hearing your review, can we say that you shaped their opinion of it?
Of course that's not what 'we' can assume. Having an impact on someone != changing someone's mind. Causing someone to think doesn't necessarily change their mind. Don't be snotty.
[Edited by Frosty on 07-25-2001 at 20:39]
Supernova was another box office bomb - if any fans of that movie exist they must be few (based on sales). I was making a facetious reference to Supernova (which I also hated). To be fair - we don't really know how many people that saw WCM actually hated it. Just like we don't know how many TR viewers really like the movie - sales alone do not mean that people liked/hated the movie. We could say that most people that saw WCM loved it and it would have performed better had it been marketed better.
Originally posted by Frosty
Originally posted by Marcml30
You think you're so clever, don't you?From this can we assume that all of your friends (whom you told you liked the movie) enjoyed it? And, for those that did enjoy it, after hearing your review, can we say that you shaped their opinion of it?
Of course that's not what 'we' can assume. Having an impact on someone != changing someone's mind. Causing someone to think doesn't necessarily change their mind. Don't be snotty.
Hey, I was just reversing the comment made by LOAF. Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought his post implied that Pedro's friends hated the movie because he (Pedro) told them HE hated it. And I absolutely agree with you, if I tell a friend that I hated/loved something - that should not necessarily change their mind.
[Edited by Marcml30 on 07-25-2001 at 21:39]
- Status