Firekkans...

I knew about the Confederation dreadnought. I just wasn't clear on the details about the Concordia fleet carries. I thought the fleet carriers were a newer design because of the enclosed flight deck. Why build a newer ship in the Confederation dreadnought but use an older design with a more open flight deck. :confused: That was my POV.
 
There's no reason to believe that the closed runway is the newer design though... especially considering the fact that the Concordia and Ranger classes are older than any open runway ship we've seen...
 
Originally posted by I'm thinkin...
Why build a newer ship in the Confederation dreadnought but use an older design with a more open flight deck.

Confederation Class Dreadnoughts were built 'around' main big gun - PTC. It was primary task constructors were done. All other stuff: engines, bridge, crew quarters etc., including fighter compliment (with hangars, decks and runways) was secondary for them. I think they cannot implement *deck covered* design without large design modifications.
 
Originally posted by Black Joker


Confederation Class Dreadnoughts were built 'around' main big gun - PTC. It was primary task constructors were done. All other stuff: engines, bridge, crew quarters etc., including fighter compliment (with hangars, decks and runways) was secondary for them. I think they cannot implement *deck covered* design without large design modifications.

That doesn't make any sense though... sure the Phase Transit Cannon was a major structural part of the ship, but that has nothing to do with the form of the flight deck. There are similar 'open' runway designs throughout WC2. It seems that it was a choice over the closed design rather than something forced upon them by the PTC. You could quite easily have designed a boxy carrier around the PTC.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF


Yeah, probably, I just didn't want to find a movie screenshot <G>

connie2.jpg


connie31.jpg
 
I noticed that a few of the vessels in WC movie were shaped like present day naval vessels. All the heavy gun turrets are top side along with the bridge. I bet if these ships were dropped in an ocean they'd float.:D
 
Originally posted by Starkey
Looks like a flying Bismarck with a Big Gun™.
b-bismarck-into-battle.jpg

connie2.jpg

I suppose I could see the resemblance if the only criteria for comparison were that they both have guns.
 
A+ for the picture, Frosty.
I don´t think I need to be explaining everything here but they can both be considered Dreadnoughts, both of them look like really strong and invincible ships and they both have Big Guns™. IT WAS JUST A JOKE, C´MON!!! :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Starkey
A+ for the picture, Frosty.
I don´t think I need to be explaining everything here but they can both be considered Dreadnoughts

No they can't... the circa 2653 Concorida is a Supercruiser and not a dreadnought. Therefore it's difficult to consider it a dreadnought.
 
I might be really wrong here, but I think "Dreadnought" as a term classifying ships refers specifically to all battleships which followed the HMS Dreadnought launched in 1906 and incorporate the same design philosophies pertaining to armaments and engines and such.

While the Bismarck is most definitely a Dreadnought-type battleship, the Concordia couldn't possibly be, simply because it's a spacecraft.

Like I said though, I could be way off.
 
Originally posted by Frosty
I might be really wrong here, but I think "Dreadnought" as a term classifying ships refers specifically to all battleships which followed the HMS Dreadnought launched in 1906 and incorporate the same design philosophies pertaining to armaments and engines and such.

Dreadnoughts are any ship with it's primary arms consisting of a minimum of 6 guns. They must be at least 12 inch guns, and all 6 or more must be of the same calibur. This is the design phiosophy of the dreadnought. A ship defended by a bunch of big guns of the same type. The SuperCruiser's main gun defense consists of 4 Anti-matter gun turrets. This is not, in fact, it's main defense, which instead consists of 50 torpedo tubes. By the present definition it isn't a dreadnought...

Confed seems to have a different definition for dreadnought. Dreadnoughts are the big guns. The Confederation class, with it's PTC, the Sivar with it's big gun, the Behemoth with it's big gun. Both the Kilrathi 22 km Dreadnought and the Snakier Class Super-Dreadnought have less than satisfactory specifications. The 22km ship's stats appear to be incomplete, while the Super-Dreadnought's statistics are admitted to be speculative... Either way, it's still a ship with big guns, the classification just appears to have different requirements than today.

TC
 
Originally posted by TC

No they can't... the circa 2653 Concorida is a Supercruiser and not a dreadnought. Therefore it's difficult to consider it a dreadnought.

As I said, it was just a joke, I did not use the term Dreadnought "technically", it´s just like when Zero (or Dallas, I don´t remember) say in WCP that the Midway is a "Behemoth".
 
Originally posted by Starkey
it´s just like when Zero (or Dallas, I don´t remember) say in WCP that the Midway is a "Behemoth".
Ehh, I dunno. Dreadnought has always been a classification-specific term.

Anyway, we know you didn't mean it exactly, we're just talking.
 
According to sources like Britannica and the OED, the design philosophy of the “dreadnought” inaugurated by HMS Dreadnought is essentially dead. The use of big guns of one caliber in the early twentieth century was born of the need to penetrate the improved, thicker armor of ships. Concurrent experience proving long-range attacks to be quite effective in turn diminished the importance of armaments used in short-range battles. In addition, it was problematical anyway to use guns of different calibers because during an engagement it was always hard to tell which shells, and thus which guns, had caused the splashes/misses that were key to targeting. This strategy of “bigger is better” was relatively short-lived however–at first wearied by successive efforts to build larger and still heavier battleships (mirrored in the linguistic travails of “dreadnoughts” yielding to “super-dreadnoughts”), and finally overtaken by the improved weaponry of carrier-based aircraft at the end of WWII.

Given that history, it’s hard to say how the word would or should be applied in the WC universe. But in-universe terms like “super-cruiser” and “super-dreadnought”, taken together with TC’s observations about the specific ships, certainly suggest that the word is similarly failing to hold onto a technical definition.

Regarding the length of the Concordia-class carrier, a relevant passage from The Price of Freedom that may or may not be a personal observation by Blair is: The [Vesuvius] carriers looked to be about twice the length of the Concordia, which had been one of the largest CVs in the Fleet before it had been destroyed over Earth. (Hmm. Earth.)

I have to say, though, that I’ve wondered if the Concordia-class towards the end of the War underwent a redesign similar to that of the Bengal-class in and around 2642 (perhaps resulting, among other things, in a new length). I’m thinking of Blair’s repeated references in The Price of Freedom, first as to the Lexington and then later regarding the Princeton, that the Concordia-class and Confederation-class shared the same internal design, at least in part. So the question becomes which “borrowed” from the other? (Was this possibly one aftermath of the Confederation-class being discontinued due to the failure of the PTC?) In this regard, Eisen makes an interesting comment (p.57) about the rebuilding of the Lexington from its “dead hull” following the Battle of Terra: “It turned out that it would have been cheaper just to scrap what was left and start over.” No persuasive proof of a redesign, necessarily, but still intriguing. (For what it’s worth, I’ve even wondered whether, if there were a redesign, the Winterrowd underwent such a refit. I’ve always found the comment in Privateer about the destroyed carrier–that it “wasn’t all she was cracked up to be”–curious, considering that the ship, if it was the same ship, dated back to the time of WC1. Again, no real proof of anything, but interesting.)
 
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