Firekkans...

Yeah tell that to the Japanese in WWII. There efforts at building super-dreadnoughts culminated in the launching of the Musashi and Yamato. Each ship had nine 18 inch guns. Both of which by the way were sunk be carrier based aircraft, once again proving that the aricraft carrier and not the battleship were the premier vessels of the war. Of the two, only the Yamato actually fired her guns during the war at the Battle of Leyte Gulf in the Philippines. If memory serves, the Yamato didn't even sink a U.S. ship. Some of her shells aided in the sinking of an escort carrier in Leyte Gulf, but that was all. About the only thing dreadnoughts and battlships were good for was shore bombardment. Although there were some good surface battles involving battleships. One that comes to mind was the Battle of Surigao Strait. Six U.S. battleships and two Japanese battleships along with assorted numbers of smaller craft engaged in a heated excange of gunfire that sank all but two Japanese ships, a cruiser and a destroyer. No U.S. ships were lost.
 
Originally posted by I'm thinkin...
Both of which by the way were sunk be carrier based aircraft, once again proving that the aricraft carrier and not the battleship were the premier vessels of the war.
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Merely the result of the circumstances of the times. There are existing and emerging modern technologies that could make the full-on battlewagon the king of the seas again, though that'd probably never happen. The important thing to remember is that everything is fluid, what's on top at one point can be surpassed by the underdog in short order. The only advantage a carrier has is its range. It can attack farther out that a battleship can, but that won't always have to be true. Perhaps one day someone will invent a form of body armor that deflects gunshots with such effectiveness that the sword becomes the premier infantry weapon, making anyone who was so convinced of the gun's total superiority very sad when they lose fights. The point is never to assume that anything will stay the same for long.
No U.S. ships were lost.
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The main reasons why US fleets were able to walk all over Japanese fleets are that the US ships had better targetting systems as well as better guns. The 18" shells the Japanese used had a lower muzzle velocity, so they exploded on contact with the US ships' armor, while our 16" shells penetrated the hull and then exploded, causing much more damage. I'm not sure what that is supposed to indicate about the age of the battleship coming to a close, though.
 
Originally posted by Frosty
The main reasons why US fleets were able to walk all over Japanese fleets are that the US ships had better targetting systems as well as better guns. The 18" shells the Japanese used had a lower muzzle velocity, so they exploded on contact with the US ships' armor, while our 16" shells penetrated the hull and then exploded, causing much more damage. I'm not sure what that is supposed to indicate about the age of the battleship coming to a close, though.
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Thats not entirely true. Earlier in the war, the Japanese were besting the U.S. during surface engage, especially at night because the U.S. radar targeting systems were not up to the same level as the Japanese. Nor were the U.S. sailors well traied in night time surface engagements. One particular engagment, I forget where, but it pitted an equal number of Japanese and U.S. destroyers against each other. The engagement happened at night and the U.S. force was shot up pretty bad because of poor radar, insufficient training, and an inflated ego on the part of the commanding U.S. officer. Later in the war, somewhere in later 1943 or early 1944, all U.S. ships were outfitted with new and improved radar and night time training excersices were conducted to better prepare their sailors for night combat. Once these changes occured the U.S. began to beat the Japanese more often.

The age of the battleship came to a close because of the advent of the aircraft carrier and its ability to carry out strikes against enemy targets 300-400 miles away. But now with the new age of guided missiles, surface ships have the abiltiy to strike at targets 500 or more miles away. Carriers still have the ability to strike a target over 500 miles out but with guided missiles, carriers aren't always needed when a strike agaisnt a target is required.
 
Originally posted by I'm thinkin...


Earlier in the war, the Japanese were besting the U.S. during surface engage, especially at night because the U.S. radar targeting systems were not up to the same level as the Japanese. Nor were the U.S. sailors well traied in night time surface engagements.
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I agree with you about the lack of US training for night fighting, however I don't believe that the Japanese (or any of the Axis powers)had radar during WW2.
 
Hi,

I'm not sure about the Japanese, but the germans certainly had radar during ww2, both groundborne and airborne in their night fighters :)
 
I know radar was a secret weapon developed by English and US scientists during the begining of WW2, and that Germany did not have it during the Battle of Britain although they could have definately developed it later on in the war...
 
I just saw som,ething on the History Channel where it says "Goering was confident the British did not have radar", implying the Germans did... I know they had it later in the way, and the Japanese apparently did too, since a historian says Jap radar sucked.
 
Originally posted by Bob McDob
I just saw som,ething on the History Channel where it says "Goering was confident the British did not have radar", implying the Germans did... I know they had it later in the way, and the Japanese apparently did too, since a historian says Jap radar sucked.
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... that doesn't imply that at all.
 
Ne, well, no matter how stupid you are, there's always someone at least one level stupider ^_^
 
Originally posted by Bob McDob
I just saw som,ething on the History Channel where it says "Goering was confident the British did not have radar", implying the Germans did... I know they had it later in the way, and the Japanese apparently did too, since a historian says Jap radar sucked.
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The Germans developed radar on their own, although I'm not certain how early they had it. They probably had it at some point during the Battle of Britain, considering how long it went on, and how nebulous the definitions are of exactly how long the "battle" lasted.
One interesting story concerns chaff. Both the British and the Germans realized that little strips of tinfoil dropped from the air would confuse radar signals, but both sides decided not to use it because they were afraid to give the idea to their enemies. This lasted until the British figured out a solution to the problem, at which point they began to utilize it to fool German radar.

Very little bearing on the topic, but an interesting factoid nonetheless.
 
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