Confed or Border Worlds
- Thread starter Iceman2225
- Start date
The new fighters for each new wing commander were there to get you to buy the new game so you could fly the "top of the line equipment". back story was probably applied later. I think I saw this in an earlier post from loaf (pertaining to WC3 fighters anyway) but I'd still like a run down on all fighters in the Confed arsenal since WC1 (tall order and I'm not really asking for it, just an early birthday wish for me
).Thats what happens when you set out to design a mediocre aircraft. A fighter that is supposed to be a "jack of all trades" craft also has to adhere to the "master of none" title. The Hellcat is one of my favorite fighers in the sense that it is an extension of how I see myself. I'm very good at alot of things but I have nothing that I really excel at
. The best thing about a Cat is that it took a really good pilot to use the Hellcat effectively (the Bolt was just too powerfull to be any fun sometimes). That is why the Hellca is by far my favorite WC3 fighter.I'm thinkin...
Spaceman
If you are looking for a jack of all trades fighter it should be the Thunderbolt. It has the same amount of missiles as the 'Cat plus two extra guns and a torp for engaging enemy cap ships. I admit it does suffer from slow speeds and turning ability, but still a very effective fighter in the hands of an expert pilot(me, of course
). The one thing the Thud does lack is the ability to fly in an atmosphere, but thats what the Excal is for
.
The BW's Vindicator also fills the role of jack of all trades. It has a decent gun loadout, maybe even awesome loadout with those stormfire cannons. Plus it has three torps for dealing with cap ships, and has the ability to fly in an atmosphere. What more do you need.
.....Uh, never mind that. I know some of you will come up with something you need.
). The one thing the Thud does lack is the ability to fly in an atmosphere, but thats what the Excal is for.The BW's Vindicator also fills the role of jack of all trades. It has a decent gun loadout, maybe even awesome loadout with those stormfire cannons. Plus it has three torps for dealing with cap ships, and has the ability to fly in an atmosphere. What more do you need.
.....Uh, never mind that. I know some of you will come up with something you need.
You are absolutely right! In fact (mad shocking fact
) I find the Vindicator more well-rounded than the Hellcat V. As for the gun loadout on the Vindie- I am in love with the tachyon cannon (that being the driving factor for the Bearcat being my favorite Confed fighter next to the Hellcat). However, the Vindie looks dumb, so therefor I am left to my bias-
HELLCAT V FOREVER!
As Ghost already said, even frontline recon units use Excaliburs, so they can hardly be called obsolete. Not only that, even line warships in SO carry and launch Excals and Thunderbolts.
AFIK, there aren't any established rollout dates for the various fighters. I tend to think they're of the same generation for a couple of reasons. First, as we've already covered, the designations, which form a smooth and unbroken sequence (unlike the F-117, which steps out of the sequence altogether.) Simply skipping a couple designations ahead for the Dragon would still have implied that there was a new, more advanced fighter under development. Once rumours started flying around of a previously unknown and powerfull fighter in action on the frontier, people might have very quickly put two and two together, so such a ploy could backfire in a big way. While the unbroken series of designations isn't conclusive, it *is* suggestive, especially taken along with a couple of other points.
First, if the WC4 and Prophecy fighters are two differant generations, then it's strange that the "Prophecy Generation" doesn't offer a huge advantage over the WC4 generation. When you get down to it, the Excalibur would be a better "jack of all trades" fighter than the Tigershark, the Bearcat would just about as good as a Panther as a superiority class B, and as numerous Dragon vs Excalibur debates show, the Dragon could be considered as good as the Vampire as a superiority fighter class A. What that means is that Confed would have introduced one entire generation in the five or so years following the war, and then designed and introduced another generation that pretty much does jobs the first generation could have done in the five years after that. Given the cost cutting Confleet faced post war, I can hardly see the Senate jumping up and down in joy at spending billlions of credits that way.
Second, there a lot of design similarities between these fighters. The Bearcat and Dragon (though admitedly not the Excalibur) have very heavy armour compared to wartime fighters of their class, which is the same with the Prophecy fighters. All three of them are also considerably more maneuverable than fighters of their classes and weights traditionally were, another feature shared with the Prophecy fighters. That suggests they share some of the same technology, such as high strength armour plating and enhanced manuever systems.
Thirdly, a fleet wide upgrade of several fighter types costs a heck of a lot of money if its done at one time, especially if piled on top of the cost of bringing the Midways on line. It's a heck of lot easier on the budget to spread that out over several years, as well as putting a lot less strain on personell and operational readiness.
Besides, getting back to the original point, if Confed *had* introduced two differant generations of fighters into frontline service the war, all the more reason and incentive for the Border Worlders to at least move one generation beyond the Kilrathi war era craft they were using in WC4. They learnt the perils of being one gneration behind in WC4, so I doubt they would want to be *two* generations behind.
Best, Raptor
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Originally posted by Viper61
The new fighters for each new wing commander were there to get you to buy the new game so you could fly the "top of the line equipment". back story was probably applied later. I think I saw this in an earlier post from loaf (pertaining to WC3 fighters anyway) but I'd still like a run down on all fighters in the Confed arsenal since WC1 (tall order and I'm not really asking for it, just an early birthday wish for me
This may not be entirely accurate, as I'm writing it from my desk at work rather than at home where I have manuals and notes and so forth. I may well be forgetting some very important facts -- lets get a dialogue going regarding this list...
Wing Commander:
Hornet class Light Fighter (?)
CF-105 Scimitar class Medium Fighter (2526*)
Rapier II class Medium Fighter (2654)
Raptor class Heavy Fighter (2639*)
Wing Commander II:
P-64 Ferret class Patrol Fighter (2639*)
F-54 Epee class Light Attack Fighter (2654*)
F-57 Sabre class Heavy Attack Fighter (2634*)
A-10 Broadsword class Heavy Bomber (2648)
Wraith class Medium Fighter (2667)
Wing Commander III:
Arrow V class Light Fighter (2654*)
F-86 Hellcat V class Medium Fighter (2654*)
F-66 Thunderbolt VII class Heavy Fighter (2668)
F/A-76 Longbow class Heavy Fighter (2654*)
F-103 Excalibur class Heavy Space/Atmospheric Fighter/Bomber (2669)
Wing Commander IV:
F-104 Bearcat class Heavy Fighter (2673)
F-107 Lance class Heavy Fighter (2672)
Armada:
Phantom (?)
Gladius (?)
Banshee (?)
Wing Commander Prophecy:
F/A-105 Tigershark class Multi-Role Fighter (?)
F-106 Piranha class Scout Fighter (?)
F-108 Panther class Space Superiority Fighter (?)
F-109 Vampire class Space Superiority Fighter (?)
F-110 Wasp class Interceptor (?)
TB-80 Devestator class Torpedo Bomber (?)
TB-81 Shrike class Torpedo Bomber (?)
A few technical commentaries...
An asterix marks the first time a ship has been known to be in service. No asterix means a specific service entry date. A question mark means we've only seen said ship referenced as early as whatever game it appears in (Prophecy ships all first appear in 2681, Armada ships 2668, so forth).
The Phantom and the Gladius seem to be developments of the Raptor class ships.
There is an interesting theory regarding the Hellcat and its appearince in WCA (giving it the 2654 date) -- it has been suggested that this may be its predecessor, the Action Stations' era *Wildcat*... which would explain the Hellcat statue at the Academy grounds. I'm definately in favor of this, although it's not directly supported anywhere.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Originally posted by Ghost
LOAF: There aren´t two versions or two diferent Rapiers?
The Rapier from the movie and the Rapier from WCI/II ?
Or they are the same with some diferent cosmetic details?
The Rapier in the movie is the Rapier, the Rapier in WC1 and 2 is the Rapier II.
IMHO, this simple fact is the biggest reason I think that the Prophecy fighters are relatively new. If the Tigershark and Piranha had been around for as long as or longer than the Dragon, I think we'd be seeing more of them throughout Confed. Instead, the Prophecy fighters are extremely rare in SOP, and space is overrun with Excaliburs and T-Bolts. The Prophecy fighters do appear off of platforms other than the Hades and the Midway, but in extremely limited numbers.
For one thing, we don't know how common Pirhanas and Tigerhsarks are off other carriers, since we don't see action on other carriers. For another, age and their numberss in SO aren't neccessarily tied together. If you had the choice, which would you rather have defending your home system, an Pirhana or an Excalibur?
Best, Raptor
Best, Raptor
The Piranha is more of a scout , so probably not that. But I would expect to see more Tigersharks. The fact that you can count the number of Tigersharks in SOP on your fingers is, IMHO, an indication that they're fairly uncommon, which hints that they might be new. I'd also expect to see Wasps (these would probably be quite useful for base defense) and Panthers, but while the Vampires show up once or twice, I don't think the Wasps and Panthers are seen at all (except for those flown off the Hades).
I'm not quite clear on this. I see the F-107 referred to either as the Dragon or Lance. Sometimes both (ie Dragon/Lance). Is Dragon the UBW/BL name for it and Lance the Confed name for it?
Also, I know Confed never bothered mass-producing them because of cost (more than some planetary economies
) but did they, at one time, have a Dragon/Lance production line? If so, did they mothball their entire F-107 fleet or actually continue their service? Dragons are kewl!!
I'm thinkin...
Spaceman
The way I understood it the Lance/Dragon was known as the Dragon. It was manufactured for Tolwyn's Black Lance forces, hence the name Lance. But i have no way of confirming this. LOAF?
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Not quite...
The actual name of the fighter is the 'Lance'.
'Dragon' was a common callsign that caught on as the 'popular' name. Like how the Thunderbolt II is called the Warthog.
The variant in WCIV is the special ops version (like those -S variants of the WCP ships), so it's a Black Lance.
Tolwyn's project gets its nickname from the fighter, not vice-a-versa.
The actual name of the fighter is the 'Lance'.
'Dragon' was a common callsign that caught on as the 'popular' name. Like how the Thunderbolt II is called the Warthog.
The variant in WCIV is the special ops version (like those -S variants of the WCP ships), so it's a Black Lance.
Tolwyn's project gets its nickname from the fighter, not vice-a-versa.
Tthe rarity of the Tigershark in SO might well be due to the advantages the Excalibur offers over the Tigershark. For HG squadrons who don't have wings of superiority fighters to back them up, the firepower and special abilities of the Excal like autotracking, atmospheric flight and jump drive might well make it more attractive than the Tigershark.
Wasps, while usefull, have the massive disadvantage of relying on components that no other fighter uses. Without its solid fuel boosters and swarmer rocket rocket pods, a Wasp is useless. Unlike standard fighter missiles and AB fuel these can't be interchanged with other fighters. That means that HG units using Wasps would have to set up parallel supply channels to equip the Wasps aone. Again, give the firepower of the Excal we see commonly used in SO, that duplication might have been economically unfeasible in a cash strapped post war confleet.
As for Panthers, we see from their description in the WC
manual that they're commonly seen on *escort* carriers as well as the big fleet carriers. That suggests they're not all that uncommon. Best, Raptor
I'm thinkin...
Spaceman
Oh, I see says the blind man as he picks up his hammer and saw.
How dare you Raptor.
The wasp is not useless without the swarmers. With a pair of tachyons and a pair of dust cannons that thing will eat anything for breakfast and spit it out. Not to mention it has four imrecs standard. There was a cutscene in SO where Excals and Thunderbolts were jumping into a system( i forget which one) as reinforcements under power of their own jump drives, so I don't think the Excal was that stripped down. Yeah maybe it lost a couple missiles but it still has four tachyons coupled with the ion cannons and that still makes for a serious arsenal.