Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Originally posted by Ghost
Well, not all the CZers knows who Johnny is.
He's the robotic star of Short Circuit... Steve Guttenburg.
Originally posted by Ghost
Well, not all the CZers knows who Johnny is.
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Even if Confed *did* have another carrier that fulfilled the same purpose as the Concordia-class, it wouldn't really make sense for it to be a Vesuvius. The ICIS manual specifically gives Vampires to *heavy* fleet carriers (which the Concordia-class is not), and the game would certainly imply that Eisen carries *multiple* wings of fighters -- since she gives Midway the Wolfpack and then moves *ahead* of her to fight the bugs.
Confed *was* presumably working on a new class of carrier during the war... the Vesuvius.
Well, it wasn't really their *choice* to stop producing war era carriers -- the Kilrathi whacked the hell out of their shipyards in 2668...
As we see in End Run, a carriers deck size limits what classes of fighters it can carry -- the Tarawa couldn't carry Broadswords, for instance.
Originally posted by Viper61
1st statement - I'm talking about a realatively new class of fleet carrier that Confed had during/directly after the war, not the existing Concordia. Also, we have also seen that a carrier can be loaded to the gills with craft, so the Eisen could pass along the extra fighters to Midway and have her original complement of fighters to fight the bugs. By the way, what is the WC number for a wing of fighters? For some reason 12 is sticking in my head, but I'm probably wrong ( I just remember Tolwyn restructuring the fighter numbers to keep the same anount of planes/pilots aboard carriers) And If I remeber correctly the Ranger class held multiple fighter wings, and it's complement was 40.
2nd statement - Again this was not the class I was speaking of. In End Run, Branbridge offers Bear one of the new fleet carriers coming out of the docks soon, not a Vesuvius (this is what I was hinting one possiblity fo rhte Eisen as being).
3rd statement - Not all theri shipyardswere destroyed. What I'm getting at is the designs that were in place would still be produced, their productions wouldn't just be halted.
4th statement - The Vampire isn't athat big (18 meters) compared to the Broadsword, twice it's size. So my question still remains, why can't an exception be made for Vampires to be stationed on a fleet carrier if that carrier was going into combat? Size isn't an issue (the vampire is actually smaller than a wartime Arrow, which the extremely small rangers carried)
C-ya
1st statement - I'm talking about a realatively new class of fleet carrier that Confed had during/directly after the war, not the existing Concordia. Also, we have also seen that a carrier can be loaded to the gills with craft, so the Eisen could pass along the extra fighters to Midway and have her original complement of fighters to fight the bugs. By the way, what is the WC number for a wing of fighters? For some reason 12 is sticking in my head, but I'm probably wrong ( I just remember Tolwyn restructuring the fighter numbers to keep the same anount of planes/pilots aboard carriers) And If I remeber correctly the Ranger class held multiple fighter wings, and it's complement was 40.
2nd statement - Again this was not the class I was speaking of. In End Run, Branbridge offers Bear one of the new fleet carriers coming out of the docks soon, not a Vesuvius (this is what I was hinting one possiblity fo rhte Eisen as being).
3rd statement - Not all theri shipyardswere destroyed. What I'm getting at is the designs that were in place would still be produced, their productions wouldn't just be halted.
4th statement - The Vampire isn't athat big (18 meters) compared to the Broadsword, twice it's size. So my question still remains, why can't an exception be made for Vampires to be stationed on a fleet carrier if that carrier was going into combat? Size isn't an issue (the vampire is actually smaller than a wartime Arrow, which the extremely small rangers carried)
But I wan tto shift this another way. So I'm to understnad that Confed after WC4 said, "Okay, lets stop building everything else but Vesuvius class carriers and let our Concordias that we have left over from the Kilrathi war (which wasn't many) to make up the rest of teh fleet." Aparently they were still building Concordias since I beleive the Lady Lex is a new Concordia (maybe just a very new refit). I really don't see why COnfed would build nothing but super expensive heavy carriers between WC4 and Prophecy.
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
He's the robotic star of Short Circuit... Steve Guttenburg.
Originally posted by Viper61
Okay, so you've answered all my arguments that the Eisen is more than likely a Vesuvius, just by hte sheer amount of fighters it delivered to the Midway (didn't know it was that many), and like I said you'll run out of angry volcanoes in a little while
But I wan tto shift this another way. So I'm to understnad that Confed after WC4 said, "Okay, lets stop building everything else but Vesuvius class carriers and let our Concordias that we have left over from the Kilrathi war (which wasn't many) to make up the rest of teh fleet." Aparently they were still building Concordias since I beleive the Lady Lex is a new Concordia (maybe just a very new refit). I really don't see why COnfed would build nothing but super expensive heavy carriers between WC4 and Prophecy.
One more thing, the Vampire isn't a whole new technology. If you can suppoirt the Panther, a ship should be able to support the Vampire (same technology just a radically different take on an existing design philosphy - instead of improved "horizontal (y) axis" movement the vampire has the same vectored thrust technology used to enhance "vertical (z)axis"and roll movement ). Like I said before, teh Vampire is small so it could fit everywhere. So it's not a matter of space or equipment, its a matter of trained personnel. It takes someone familiar with the maintanance/service of the Vamps to truly suppoort it. I guess it would take longer to train someone for the Vampire, but not that long (the excaliburs introduction in WC3 is the same situation - existing technology, minus the cloak, pushed to its limit. Didn't take Rachel and her crew long to figure it out ). I don't understand why a statement like "usually assigned to heavy carriers" would exclude any other use of an aircraft. there are many craft that were designed for use aboard a carrier, but are also used on land based installations. Just because it was designed for a specific purpose or assigned to a specific duty doesn't exclude it from being utilized elsewhere. I'm not arguing that 'if we ignore X then I'm right', its just the diffence between and inclusive and exclusive statement. I'm not ignoring the fact that the literature says "assigned to heavy carriers", I'm just arguing that there is no logical reason that the Vamp couldn't be assigned to an "un-heavy" carrier if it was needed in an engagement situation, like the ones against the bugs.
C-ya
Originally posted by Haesslich
MORE likely? Um... someone who worked on Prophecy and SO said that the damned Eisen was a freaking Vesuvius. What more do you need, a screenshot of a Vesuvius with 'TCS Eisen' on the hull and a guided tour of the ship?
Okay, Loaf for the cheap seats (this includes me), what in the way of carriers did Confed have in service and producing between the end of the Kilrathi War and Prophecy? Just Vesuvius-class? vesuvius and concordia? A straight plain answer would be helpful.
Just for the record, catapults were introduced well before 1951. All of the major US carrier classes of WWII had and used catapults. The ESSEX-class carriers, the most prominent and successful class of warship ever built, had three (two on the flight deck and one straight out of the hangar deck, the latter very rarely used). The INDEPENDENCE-class light carriers had them. Even the escort carriers had one. Come to think of it, pre-WWII carriers had catapults. Though they weren't built with them (IIRC), the LEXINGTON and SARATOGA had a couple installe dint eh early 30's, and the YORKTOWN-class (all completed in the late 30's and into 1940) did as well.Originally posted by Viper61
Catapult technology hasn't improved that much since it's introduction in 1951...
Originally posted by Haesslich
Lady Lex was rebuilt on the hull of the Lexington which was destroyed at the Battle of Earth, as noted in the WC4 novel. And it was FAR more expensive than building a new ship from the keel-up, as noted by Eisen. There's a reason for the Midway-class ship: it's called 'cost effectiveness'. Ditto jeep carriers, and the Vesuvius-class capships.
Originally posted by Ender
Perhaps he was refering to the US copying British steam catapults, as opposed to Hydraulic ones.
The Ranger class carrier was just *recently* taken out of mothballs, though == presumably it was updated to carry more recent fighters (Thunderbolt). Although the Excalibur seems to have been designed with small bays (asteroid bases, in particular) in mind.