A discussion on the true nature of the Nephilim

You can always use one more covert specialized operations unit, as long as they dont end up trying to wipe out most of humanity to leave behind the prime members of the species.
 
I think after what happened with the Project, Confed would put much tighter controls on the way its special forces operate. Using former Lancers, though, would be tempting fate.

Best, Raptor
 
[T]he Black Lance were far too dangerous as a *group* for Confed to allow them to continue operating. While induvidual Black Lancers might still be around after having faced the courts, the Black Lance as a organised force would be dead and gone.
Click to expand...

Of course... nobody's trying to bring back the Black Lance.
Click to expand...

Nah ... there'll never be more Black Lance. Too much baggage associated with the name.
Click to expand...

I think after what happened with the Project, Confed would put much tighter controls on the way its special forces operate. Using former Lancers, though, would be tempting fate.
Click to expand...

I don’t think we should be too quick to dismiss the “Black Lance” (either as an organization or a fighter) as dead and gone. We shouldn’t forget that one of the two alternative winning endgames to WCIV has Blair, albeit as an admiral, making use of “Black Lance fighters”. Of course, that endgame is not canon insofar as Blair’s career is concerned since we know he follows the path (as a flight instructor) indicated by the other winning endgame. But since that’s the only overt contradiction between the two endgames, that still leaves us with the distinct possibility, if not probability, that Black Lance fighters continue to be used in some organized form by Confed after Tolwyn’s fall.
 
They don't, that we see anyway. The problem is that they do in the other endgame, and so the question is do we have (or have we been given) any reason or basis to distinguish the two in that regard.
 
Well theres a big difference between the two endings. One has Blair becoming a flight instructor teaching the new pilots of the Confederation how to fly with skill and the morals of the Confederation and the other has Blair becoming a military leader in the vain of what Tolwyn was, using the Black Lance to do his bidding. I doubt the Black Lance is an operational unit still (considering Blair didnt become an evil general)
 
He's an evil admiral, not an evil general!

I don't believe that any Dragons were used by Confed; however, much of the BL's technology probably was, like that direct engine-to-gun capacitor gizmo.

The Black Lance did survive the death of Tolwyn...but there really wasn't enough to keep the Project going. Tolwyn himself laments over this. Then, there was the BL hunt described at the end of the WC4 novel, so those remaining forces may have been destroyed as well.

Then again, the Black Lance were a nice enemy. I'd bring them back. They were the guys you loved to hate.
 
You’re making some pretty hefty assumptions. Blair becomes an evil admiral? And he alone is thereby responsible for Confed’s continued use of the fighters? Where is any of that to be found in the one endgame?

I’ll grant you that the mood of that endgame is brooding, but I don’t think that allows you to conclude Blair has become another Tolwyn. (For all we know, he might simply be dreading a scheduled dental appointment.) For that matter, we don’t know enough about the Black Lance fighters referred to to conclude they’re being flown by the same people or even used in the very same “ruthless” way.

I too would like to believe that Tolwyn’s comeuppance at the end of the game means that the Black Lance will be no more. But Tolwyn’s fall is prologue to both endgames, in which it appears that the only material difference has to do with Blair’s choice of a career. (And the conversation between Paladin and Blair in the one endgame where Paladin basically acknowledges that Blair can write his own ticket career-wise--and become a general, senator, or what-have-you--only complements the point.) Given that arguably trivial distinction between the endgames, we really aren’t in a very good position to draw any firm conclusions about the ultimate fate of the Black Lance (let alone the GE program or the Belisarius Group).
 
I thought it was really hard to tell the evil Blair ending was bad...It was the first ending I got to the game and I thought it was the good ending...I mean, Blair was an Admiral, Hawk was some higher up. I mean yeah there was a somber mood, but I attributed that to Blair having to kill so many humans to get his point across.
 
He was a general. Hawk even referred to him as such. He uses Black Lance forces to crush an uprising. Not the nicest of ways to handle such things is it? Especially from Blair who rebelled himself to fight an injustice. So why are they rebelling? And how do you get to that endgame scene? By using a weapon that is indiscriminate and by the games own admittance, whether you believe to be or not, evil.
 
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.:)

Hawk calls him “Admiral”.

The Black Lance fighters are sent to do “recon”, apparently designed to intimidate. (And we’re not otherwise told what the “rebellion” is about.)

The endgame results from Blair’s following Hawk’s advice more often than Panther’s in the course of the conflict. (The Flash-pak gets used either way.)
 
No, its General, he orders the Black Lance to be used against the rebellion, and you get the endgame when you Flashpak the Vesuvius which you dont have to do.
 
Sorry, but it's "Admiral" and "recon". (I can only suggest you listen to the scene for yourself, as I have a few times today.)

And I have indeed "flash-paked" the carrier and still ended with Blair becoming a flight instructor. (The key is how Blair chooses between Hawk vs. Panther.)
 
Well if you did it several times today...

Still dont know why he would use an elite special operations force for recon when any light fighter would do unless he plans on using them for the only thing they are good for. Killing.
 
Believe It is *Admiral*
Maybe he needs a recon in a hot enemy zone, and he wants a cloaked/invisble fighter... of course is a shame to use a Dragon in this role, but if you need the info..
 
Arrows have cloaks if thats what you need. You dont use a force like the Black Lance for recon if you dont intend to follow up and use them to "supress" the rebellion. Make no mistake, that ending was more sinister than the other one. It is not a rosy ending.
 
I have make no mistake!!!! i know that the admiral ending is the *bad* ending (not bad really only a matter of taste)
but it looks more juicy that the instructor ending.
 
More juicy? I found it disappointing (back when i didnt know there was a different ending). Here you go and do all these things to stop Tolwyn and then you end up being a clone of him. No thanks.

IIRC the first time a played the game, I listened to Hawk about getting the weapons and fighters, listened to Panther about the Ella Superbase and flashpaked the Vesuvius and i got the bad ending.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top