what prophecy/secret ops fighters can fly in atmosphere?

Originally posted by Cadfael
hmmmmm..........
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10) Please be aware of the fact that the CIC is limited in bandwidth & server space, and try to be sensible with your posts. Which is not to say that you are to be serious 100% of the time - but there are limits on "silly" posts.

Your post in addition to your silly "i got first reply!!!!!11" posts just look like attempts to up your post count. Please think before posting.
 
Didn't Halcyon say NOT to engage in the atmosphere in SM2? The pressure differential would tear your fighter apart?

Also, with all due deference to the administrators, would a few characters REALLY affect bandwidth so much? I would get the impression just the graphics on buttons (ok theyre cached, but the first time you enter they need to be loaded) or pictures would equate to many threads of text?
 
The rule isn't actually to help bandwith (although it would more than you think -- for every new post, someone has to reload all the graphics and the other post in a thread to see it)... the rule is more to prevent stupid, pointless postings.

Halcyon said not to engage in the atmosphere because the fighters hadn't been modified to do so... just saying this indicates that they *can* be modified to fight in the atmosphere and, until recently, they *had* been modified to fight in the atmosphere.
 
Originally posted by redwolf
Also, with all due deference to the administrators, would a few characters REALLY affect bandwidth so much? I would get the impression just the graphics on buttons (ok theyre cached, but the first time you enter they need to be loaded) or pictures would equate to many threads of text?
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The pictures are only loaded once which helps a lot. Unfortunately it produces side effects like Quarto seeing kittens.. :)

But because of all of the links, etc at the top of the post, that "hmm" post takes up 2k, and every time someone loads the page, thats a waste of bandwidth which soon adds up (as can be seen on the index, threads are sometimes viewed thousands of times).
 
Originally posted by Ghost
Have the fighter some kind of flaps or something to atmospheric flight ??
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I dont know how it is "officially" explained, but I would guess that the fighters have no aerodynamic capabilities at all. We know that Wc aircraft are Fly By Wire controlled, which means that they do not need to be aerodynamically stable in an atmosphere, I think that the fighter is flying in the atmosphere with thrust vectoring, which means that the main engines are diverting the thrust into the needed direction (just like the repulsors in Star Wars). You can see that with todays Su 35 or F22, these aircraft can actually stop in the air, just being hold in the air by engine power. The Harrier is capable of taking off without a runway, also here is Thrust vectoring used.
 
i think it more like they have lots of little manuevering thrusters and lots of the wc fighters especially from wc1-2 would generate lift
 
Originally posted by Sonntag
You can see that with todays Su 35 or F22, these aircraft can actually stop in the air, just being hold in the air by engine power. The Harrier is capable of taking off without a runway, also here is Thrust vectoring used.
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And just for discussion's sake, can anyone tell me what the purpose of this little mid-air freeze (dubbed "the cobra maneuver") might be? :)
 
Well... if there's a flock of geese about to fly across your path, you'll want to stop and let them fly by :).
 
Originally posted by OriginalPhoenix
And just for discussion's sake, can anyone tell me what the purpose of this little mid-air freeze (dubbed "the cobra maneuver") might be? :) [/B]
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Making the aircraft more expensive...

There is NO purpose for that at all IMO. Well as a 40 years old Phantom with a new radar could take out a Mig 29 with an Amraam medium range missile, all these maneuvers at airshows are completely useless.

In dogfighting, however, there might be an advantage, but whether that is worth so much money is rather doubtable...
 
Pilots will tell you that fancy show manuvering is the key to surviving dogfights. Aerobatic flying isnt just for the airshows! But with missiles that can aquire targets 10 miles out, there isnt much fancy flying going on, until they are shaking a missile locked onto them. Back in the hey day of aviation, dogfights were all too common, hence the "airshow" tricks and kicks were a fighter pilots way to win the battle and stay on the bogie six.

RFB
 
Originally posted by RFBurns
Pilots will tell you that fancy show manuvering is the key to surviving dogfights. Aerobatic flying isnt just for the airshows! But with missiles that can aquire targets 10 miles out, there isnt much fancy flying going on, until they are shaking a missile locked onto them. Back in the hey day of aviation, dogfights were all too common, hence the "airshow" tricks and kicks were a fighter pilots way to win the battle and stay on the bogie six.
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Ironically enough, both Sonntag and FRB have hit the precise reason for the Cobra maneuver, and didn't know it!

RFB said "until they are shaking a missile locked onto them". It is precisely this premise that makes the Cobra maneuver advantageous. Mosr modern-day radar sets operate on the doppler principle. That is, they detect their targets through their _movement_, not the mere fact that they are there. By executing a Cobra maneuver, the aircraft becomes still (or nearly so) for a scant second or two, enough to throw the doppler component out of whack.

It's not a long-term solution by any stretch, since in the case of an opposing aircraft's radar, you're likely going to be reacquired once you start moving again. But in the case of a missile, that second or two could remove your own aircraft from the acquisition cone of the missile's radar.
 
Originally posted by OriginalPhoenix
It's not a long-term solution by any stretch, since in the case of an opposing aircraft's radar, you're likely going to be reacquired once you start moving again. But in the case of a missile, that second or two could remove your own aircraft from the acquisition cone of the missile's radar. [/B]
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Well that sounds interesting, but does that really work in real life? I mean as far as I know, the Amraam is only using its own radar during the last few seconds of the flight, and in that case the blast radius of the missile still could be a threat.

Doing the Cobra Maneuver while being attacked by a missile is not such a great idea, either, as you drastically lose speed during the maneuver. In that case, even if the missile is missing, the attacking enemy aircraft should be able to start a cleverly made energy fight, using his fighters higher velocety to get close to the slow fighter, firing a IR missile and destroying the fighter.
 
in air combat somtimes the best manuver is the least expected one. just to throw your opponent off track. and who knows when somthing might become usefull? if a need shows up and you don't have the skill......
 
Originally posted by $tormin
in air combat somtimes the best manuver is the least expected one. just to throw your opponent off track. and who knows when somthing might become usefull? if a need shows up and you don't have the skill......
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Right, and we shouldn't forget either that the Cobra maneuver is only showing the maximum of a fighters capabilities, if it is able to do this maneuver due to thrust vectoring (as in the Su35), the fighter is also able to turn much better in an ordinary dog fight. So if an engagementgets so far that we have a dog fight (this happened in the gulf war quite some times), we should not underestimate the value of good maneuvering characteristics.
 
The AIM-120 AMRAAM or "Slammer" is a fire and forget missile. The one that rides the shooter's radar beam to the target is the AIM-7 Sparrow missile, which misses much more easily than the AIM-120.

The Cobra maneuver is also quite useful in a dogfight. In case nobody remembers, there was quite a bit of research done a few years ago on stall tactics, whereby the aircraft goes into a stall, forcing his opponent to overshoot.

And don't think the old-fashioned furball is dead. That's what they said thirty years ago, and Robin Olds proved them wrong.
 
Think of the Cobra as the air equivalent of the "sit and kick" maneuver in WC. You are effectively stopping, in order to reduce your turn radius to near zero, making it much easier to line up the opponent for a shot.
 
The old "furball" is definately still a part of air to air combat. Its just that with todays missiles and tracking equipment, they occur less often. Fighter pilots continuously practice and train dogfighting skills and the "aerobatic" manuvers, 24/7/365.

RFB
 
Originally posted by Fenris
Think of the Cobra as the air equivalent of the "sit and kick" maneuver in WC. You are effectively stopping, in order to reduce your turn radius to near zero, making it much easier to line up the opponent for a shot.
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If it works, it is great... But as you need a lot of thrust to do the cobra-manueuver, your IR signature is quite high. If you do it badly, you are dead...

If you manage it, you are a topace
 
Originally posted by Quarto
Originally posted by Cadfael
Yeah but academy isn't a very reliable source.
I mean they use hellcats and arrows at the academy and scimitars for real fighting.
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Academy's just as reliable as any other source. Scimitars were, in '54, the workhorse of the Confed fleet. As for the Hellcats and Arrow (only one :))... well, we don't know when the Arrow was developed, so that could have been a prototype, or an outdated variant. Same for the Hellcats.
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I agree with Quarto. Remember the Hellcat in WC3/4 is the Hellcat V....so the Hellcats we see in Academy could be like...Hellcat I's or II's...

About the Arrow, I was always under the impression it was an OLD fighter. Maybe even pre-war. I don't think there's anything to help my idea....but it's just my personal stand on it.
 
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