Wing Commander:.....??? which will be the new name:)

Of course Fleet Action is relevent -- we know that production goes *down* in the decade after the war -- thus, there can be no new heavy carrier.

Anyway, this is the point in the arguement where I kindly suggest you sit back and consider that instead of trying to figure out something about the Wing Commander Universe, you're just being anal to save face.
 
I'm neither being anal, or trying to save face, LOAF. I couldn't care less if you proved me wrong - in fact, I'd be *very* happy to see this little debate solved once and for all. I am, after all, quite used to you proving me wrong :). What does bother me, is you repeating time and again that the Eisen is a Vesuvius when you do not know for certain.

Because you still have provided no proof. Fleet Action is irrelevant, because we know absolutely *nothing* about how the Navy spends its alloted money in '81, or indeed in '73. What we *do* know, is that they *do* have money for non-necessary projects. Case in point, Hades class.
Thus, while we do indeed know that the Navy gets 35% less money now than they did at the wartime peak, we do not know what projects it spends the R&D segment of its budget on, or indeed what the size of this segment is. Therefore, you cannot dismiss the possibility of another class of heavy carrier.

There is one other argument, which is not based on any of the WC Universe fiction. If a new WC game is ever made, and if it includes the TCS Eisen, you can be certain that it will be a new class of ship - simply because the game designers love to bring in new models :).
 
Erm, no, we know that shipbuilding was *cut* after the war, according to both the TPOF novel and False Colors -- a clear indicator that there were no amazing secret super carriers hiding anywhere.

As for 'if there's a new game', we know that the Eisen *would* be a Vesuvius, since the lead designer of Secret Ops has stated that the Eisen is a Vesuvius -- it's just harder to prove this within the canon.
 
I still contend that the Eisen *might* not be a Vesuvius class ship, but hey ya never know, im not sure but I do contend that all we know is that it is some form of Fleet or Heavy carrier and that it is not a midway. Hell it could be the Third COnfederation or the TCS Confederation renamed in William Eisen's honor. The Connie carried 100 or so fighters which in 81 could be divided up into 2 different wings
 
Those 120 WERE organized as one wing, that does not mean that in the post war era that they ARE still organized that way
 
Another thing about the TCS Eisen, it did not have a problem losing a squadron to the Midway, so that ship must have a lot of fighters aboard, like the Vesuvius class carriers.
Seeing that the TCS Eisen is on hostile space, losing a intire squadron in favor of another ship is something that could serious decrease the ship odds of suvival.
Only a Vesuvius class could do that and still have a decent Fighter complement.
For a Concordia class that would mean cutting the fighters in half, decreasing its odds of suvival to near zero.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Ships generally have some sort of naming convention -- moreso because that of the Midway class is specified. Vesuvius class ships can be named after people (TCS Eisen)...
Click to expand...

You just had to mention that ship again, didn't you?

The facts that LOAF has presented indicates that the TCS Eisen very well could be a Vesuvius-class carrier. However, nowhere in the Wing Commander universe does it say in black and white what class the Eisen is.

God, I hope the next Wing Commander game clears this up once and for all.
 
Except dragon, nobody is arguing that it is a concordia class :) I am saying it could be a CONFEDERATION class. And maybe it was leaving the immediate combat area or getting near a planet/starbase that could transfer one of it's squadrons to the EISEN
 
No, they *are* organized as a wing -- the Concordia class is designed to support a single wing. If it had two wings, the ship would have to have more briefing rooms and offices (for the CAG and other Wing Commanders).
 
That was quite a few years b4 '81 so they could have upgraded one, since it would need to be upgraded anyway, b/c of new armor/shields/weapons/everything else, perhaps when confed changed the size of a wing, they decided to also split the Confederation class ships into 2 wings
 
This is all mute, because they stopped producing Confederation class ships in 2665, long before they would have named one after Eisen.
 
So, basically, your claim is that the TCS Eisen is a 25+ year old Confederation class dreadnought that was renamed and then overhauled for no apparent reason to support two wings instead of one?

The straws called, they want you to stop grasping at them. :)
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
As for 'if there's a new game', we know that the Eisen *would* be a Vesuvius, since the lead designer of Secret Ops has stated that the Eisen is a Vesuvius -- it's just harder to prove this within the canon.
Click to expand...
Great, then it's settled! :) How I wish you had mentioned that at the start, then we wouldn't have had to spend all this time debating something that's already been settled. In that case, certainly, the TCS Eisen cannot be anything but a Vesuvius.

To note, though, False Colours and TPOF also don't deal with the decade between WC4 and WCP... if they make predictions about the future, we can assume they're wrong simply because of all the new ships, both fighter and capship-sized, that appear in WCP. However, I won't press the point further, because while the possibility of other carrier classes is an interesting one, the fact that the Eisen is definitely a Vesuvius makes this possibility very much irrelevant.
 
I thought that was what we were arguing about -- how to *prove* it was a Vesuvius... we already *knew* it was a Vesuvius because we asked Johnny when we were doing the shipslist (... for Johnny, the shipslist was originally commissioned for the SO team).
 
Yes, I was arguing about how to prove it was a Vesuvius. But as far as I'm concerned, "the WC Team says so" is more than sufficient proof. Since the WC Universe is fictional, the creators' word has as much weight as everything that we're told in the various products.
 
How about:

Wing Commander: Finaly the sequel to WCP !

or

Wing Commander: Finaly something new !!

or:

Wing Commander: Let's kill some bugs in there space !!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top