Which ship do you want to fly on UE2?

[Delance]

Since the UBW buys their fighters from used equipment stores, pretty much anything goes.

 

[Lynx]

I think a sabre would be cool. First, I believe they were mentioned to be in BW use in the WC4 novel, and they would look fierce with an orange -red Borderworlders paintjob.

 

[Aries]

raptor, of course. best fighter till the excal came around, and even then, it still kicked ass. hell, it still does

 

[Eder]

I think that by 2681 the BW should have better ships than the ones on this list, except for maybe the Sabre and Wraith (and the Gladius, if you go with the Armada version).

I mean, going by the UE fiction, it's safe to assume that the Dauntless' Epees and Scimitars were some of the less capable BW ships, and not the kind of thing they plan to use onboard fully operational carriers during wartime... as opposed to a carrier that's heading for the scrap yard, and has had all of its major squadrons transferred off already.

--Eder

 

[Delance]

Originally posted by Eder
I think that by 2681 the BW should have better ships than the ones on this list

They are refitting Scimitars and Epees with new weapons. It's hard to get lower than that with most ships of the list.

 

[Eder]

Right... and just how does that change the fact that they probably have better ships than the ones on this list?

--Eder

 

[Aries]

Originally posted by Eder
I think that by 2681 the BW should have better ships than the ones on this list, except for maybe the Sabre and Wraith (and the Gladius, if you go with the Armada version).

what would the BW have that is better than a Raptor? nothing, since Quarto already said we won't get the Dragon, and AFAIK the BW don't have any Excals or Panthers or Vampires, and those are the only ships better than the Raptor

I mean, going by the UE fiction, it's safe to assume that the Dauntless' Epees and Scimitars were some of the less capable BW ships, and not the kind of thing they plan to use onboard fully operational carriers during wartime... as opposed to a carrier that's heading for the scrap yard, and has had all of its major squadrons transferred off already.

well, i agree with you on the point of the Epee, but the Scim with the viper cannon kicks ass! i sure as hell wouldn't call it a less capable ship. and, even when transfering a ship to the scrapyard, you would keep some good fighters on it to make sure it got to the scrapyard, hence keeping the Scims on board

 

[Ghost]

Originally posted by Aries
what would the BW have that is better than a Raptor? nothing, since Quarto already said we won't get the Dragon, and AFAIK the BW don't have any Excals or Panthers or Vampires, and those are the only ships better than the Raptor

A Thunderbolt VII is better than a Raptor...even the Arrow could be better.

 

[Eder]

Originally posted by Aries
what would the BW have that is better than a Raptor?

The Arrow has more shields, equal armor, can fly circles around a Raptor, although lacking a decent missile load.

The Bearcat has the same maneuverability, more speed, better guns, shields, and armor.

The Vindicator is just as fast, only slightly less maneuverable, and has much more armor and shields, not to mention a better loadout.

The Hellcat has slightly better maneuverability, is faster, has much better shields, and slightly better armor.

Take your pick. I'm as nostalgic as the next guy, but nobody has yet explained to me WHY they think UE2 should depict the BW dealing with a now imminent and unavoidable alien threat in the same way they used a half-empty hundred year old carrier to deal with half a dozen Kilrathi pirates.

UE's plot provided a good excuse to use those old ships. IMHO UE2 can't afford that anymore... Coming up with something to justify throwing Scimitars to the front lines of an all-out war would be an insult to any player's intelligence. In 2681, I bet not even the Landreich are serious about taking Raptors or Scimitars into front-line service anymore, no matter how many upgrades they've had.

--Eder

 

[Tempest]

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to create an excuse to continue using the exceptionally old ships in UE2, simply due to the fact that at the end of UE, the Dauntless is due to be refitted and sent into combat again. I mean... if it was sent into the front line with some squads of scims and raptors, even upgraded, it'd be kinda lame and wouldn't make too much sense.

I can understand why people want to be able to continue playing with the old ships that we love, but we must look at this from a realism point of view. This -is- a plot, and it is -meant- to make sense. UE2 is in prophecies time line, therefor I doubt the BW are so poor to not have some of the later technology.

Just my opinion.. I'll be playing it either way

 

[TC]

Originally posted by Tempest
Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to create an excuse to continue using the exceptionally old ships in UE2, simply due to the fact that at the end of UE, the Dauntless is due to be refitted and sent into combat again. I mean... if it was sent into the front line with some squads of scims and raptors, even upgraded, it'd be kinda lame and wouldn't make too much sense.

I can understand why people want to be able to continue playing with the old ships that we love, but we must look at this from a realism point of view. This -is- a plot, and it is -meant- to make sense. UE2 is in prophecies time line, therefor I doubt the BW are so poor to not have some of the later technology.

Eh... there's no reason to think the Bengal class is stupidly out of date... Confed was probably building them up until the end of the war. I'll also point out that Confed is using Thunderbolts in Secret Ops, it's not a stretch to think the Border Worlds are using ships in that generation and a couple earlier when you look at the lifetime for a fighter class in various sources. We've seen fighters that stay in use for a century or so, and fighters that are used as front-line ships for at least fifteen years. The situation in UE doesn't seem that odd.

 

[Aries]

Originally posted by Eder
The Arrow has more shields, equal armor, can fly circles around a Raptor, although lacking a decent missile load.

The Bearcat has the same maneuverability, more speed, better guns, shields, and armor.

The Vindicator is just as fast, only slightly less maneuverable, and has much more armor and shields, not to mention a better loadout.

The Hellcat has slightly better maneuverability, is faster, has much better shields, and slightly better armor.

and with the right pilot (me) a Raptor could kill all of the above

I'm as nostalgic as the next guy, but nobody has yet explained to me WHY they think UE2 should depict the BW dealing with a now imminent and unavoidable alien threat in the same way they used a half-empty hundred year old carrier to deal with half a dozen Kilrathi pirates.

because they can

UE's plot provided a good excuse to use those old ships. IMHO UE2 can't afford that anymore... Coming up with something to justify throwing Scimitars to the front lines of an all-out war would be an insult to any player's intelligence. In 2681, I bet not even the Landreich are serious about taking Raptors or Scimitars into front-line service anymore, no matter how many upgrades they've had.

well, here's a good reason. humanity is facing a threat that is greater than the cats (we all know differently, but that is what the game says, so that's the way its gots to be) and so the BW sent everything that could fly (namely the refitted Scims and [hopefully] Raptors, as well as some other types), put them in what has to be one of the greatest carriers ever designed (namely the Bengal class strike carrier) and sent them off to kick ass or die trying. there....a good excuse that doesn't insult anyone's intelligence.

 

[Wedge009]

Originally posted by Aries
and with the right pilot (me) a Raptor could kill all of the above

Be reasonable. When making fighter comparisons, you need to assume pilots of equal skill.

In any case, I follow Eder's reasoning more than yours.

 

[StarLight]

What's a Stilleto? Because I just voted for it...It doesn't seem quite right though...

 

[Wedge009]

A Confed light fighter from Privateer. You really shouldn't vote for ships you have no idea about.

Looky here!

 

[StarLight]

They look pretty cool. I stand by my vote. They don't look very good, however in terms of fighting ability. They look to fragile and pointy. Maybe it could be used as a ramming ship.

 

[Wedge009]

Ramming? In a light fighter? They'd certainly have the speed, but not the mass to cause enough damage.

In the Gemini sector, they're good enough. They can outrun any missiles launched at them, but the defences are too flimsy to survive more than a couple of direct hits from a fully armed Centurion.

 

[Ijuin]

I would like to see the new Rapier IV as the fast medium fighter in UE2 and one or more of the Raptor/Sabre/Vindicator in the light bomber role.

As for a light fighter, I would prefer to use the Ferret with the same stats as UE1 but with autoslide, and get rid of the Epee.

 

[Eder]

Originally posted by TC
Eh... there's no reason to think the Bengal class is stupidly out of date... Confed was probably building them up until the end of the war.

Agreed. The capships in UE probably still have a few good years left in them

Originally posted by TC
I'll also point out that Confed is using Thunderbolts in Secret Ops, it's not a stretch to think the Border Worlds are using ships in that generation and a couple earlier when you look at the lifetime for a fighter class in various sources. We've seen fighters that stay in use for a century or so, and fighters that are used as front-line ships for at least fifteen years.

Thunderbolts were used in SO, alright... but they were top-of-the-line bombers only 12 years before that, and since then there have been at least three other confed bombers... two of which have entered service just recently, in the last decade, presumably not having been produced into large enough quantities to replace the Thuds and Longbows just yet.

Scimitars, however, were retired from Confed service 25 years before that - before that, they had been used for over a century, and were already arguably one of the most controversial fighters around. Epees, of course, are only a tad older than Thunderbolts, and although also controversial, were the most modern light fighters around at the time, so IMO it's more likely that the BW have Epees in greater quantities than Scimitars, and it's also more likely that they plan on retiring the Scimitar before the Epee.

Originally posted by TC
The situation in UE doesn't seem that odd.

It really doesn't, but IMO that's only because of the Dauntless' situation. Were the Dauntless fully equipped, it would probably have at least a squadron of Vindicators or Sabres. I don't think the Dauntless' original compliment had anything as old as Scimitars - or that the WC1/2 era ships comprised the majority of the Dauntless' fighters.

--Eder

 

[Quarto]

About the Scims... yes, they are obsolete. They've been obsolete for decades, and everyone knows it. However, the Border Worlds simply had no choice but to keep using them, since they didn't have enough better fighters to get them entirely out. The Viper cannons were a last-ditch attempt to extend the Scims' lifespan for just a few years longer, long enough for the new generation of fighters to go into mass production. This attempt, by the way, failed - one of the reasons why UE was so difficult, after all, is simply because the fighters really weren't up to the task.

Anyway, I think it's almost certain that the Scimitars will be retired during UE2. Except that "retired" is perhaps the wrong term - at the rate that the BW fleet has been losing Scims all over the sector, it seems unlikely that there will be any useable Scims left by the time the dust clears.