What is with the Nephilim?

Discussion in 'General Wing Commander Chat' started by Metras, Jul 11, 2000.

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  1. Metras

    Metras Spaceman

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    What is with the Nephilium?

    Well, considering such, they came out of nowhere. Not only that, we know basically nothing about them.

    What is there to know?
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Meson

    Meson Swabbie
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    Well...

    They didn't come out of nowhere. The came from somewhere. However, we don't know where that somewhere is.

    This was meant to be a trilogy. Remember we didn't know much about the Kilrathi either at first.

    There's a lot to learn about the Nephilium, but won't be able to learn it since no more WC is coming. [​IMG]

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    Wing Commander is more than just a game. It is a lifestyle.
     
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  3. Shane

    Shane Spaceman

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    Note, this is all made up and only lossely ties into what is known. It's just what I would have liked to see.

    Because of the ways they got into our part of space, I've always harbored the idea that they might be from a nearby galaxy (though technology wise this is doubtful, but I'm dreaming, so I might as well dream big.) More specifically a galaxy that they had completely over run and stripped of most of it's resources.

    They had arrived once before (according to Kilrathi myth) but had left. According to the legends it is because the Kilrathi were not worthy, but in my little universe, the Nephilium were actually defeated in a battle around Kilrah by a species left in their galaxy. They tried to explain to the primitive Kilrathi what was happening but since science often looks like magic to those who do not undertand, they interpreted the facts in their terms. The good forces mended the rift that had been opened by the Nephilium with a last warning to the Kilrathi about the possible return if anything should happen to their planet. Here its gets really convuluted. This mending either caused or the instabilty already there led to the tectonic problems on Kilrah. The good forces in the Nephilium part of space, though they won that battle, eventually lost the war.

    The destruction of Kilarh caused the instabilty that had once been "fixed" to reoccur. Now the Nephilium are attempting to get a foothold in our galaxy, and are in fact somewhat desperate. They have quite an impressive fleet, but they are desperate for new territory to conquer. Perhaps it is because if they don't have new enemies they will turn on each other or they have so dmaged and depleted their home space they have to leave. The only problem with the latter argument is that it would take a lot of time and effort to strip a galaxy of most of its resources. Unless of course it was something exceptionally rare. I like the latter theory because the possible way to defeat them would be similar to the end of Warcraft 2 Beyond the Dark Portal. In this case, Confed discovers that to open these portals some rare element, which the Nephilium have virtually used up, is required in the construction material. Confed then hatches a bold plan to go into Nephilium space to search out and destroy what is left of this element in their galaxy, get back out and in a sense slam the door on the bugs. The idea needs more thought, and I'm sure whoever was working on the storyline at Origin had something else in mind, but since they left it open...
     
  4. Meson

    Meson Swabbie
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    WOW!! You should write a novel, or at least a complete fan fic of this. Nice work Shane.

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  5. Death's Head

    Death's Head Spaceman

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    Just because they're called bugs doesn't make them locusts. [​IMG] An interesting notion, nonetheless.
     
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  6. Hero

    Hero Spaceman

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    Here's what I've hadin mind: The bugs are more like the Shadows/Vorlons from B5. They took the Kilrathi as a young race, and *thought* it things. They've done this for so long, that in the end they had enough, so they told their *pets* that the next time they'll be back, it'll be for the last time [​IMG]. Some of the aincent technology on Kilrah (like the clocking device) is actually form earlier fights between the bugs and the Kats. I'm also considering the option the Kilrah was the bugs homeworld in the past (I know someoneelse said it before, but I don't remember who [​IMG] ), and they left it for some reason (perhaps like the *first ones* from B5 left for the rim, only the bugs decided to return).

    The way I've seen the *future* for this little war is that confed discover all the facts about the bugs, finding Kilrathi POWs in the bugs' systems, and etc.

    Now I'm really getting over my head, 'cuase these are just ideas that have been running in my head [​IMG].
     
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  7. Frosty

    Frosty a full fledged GF

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    I'd close this thread, but I want to let LOAF set you all straight. I don't wanna touch it with a thirty-nine-and-a-half-foot pole.

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    [This message has been edited by Frosty (edited July 13, 2000).]
     
  8. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    No, no, nothing about this adds up at all.

    As a rule, you have to work with what you know, not what you thought was interesting on Babylon 5. Just because something is intelligent, cool or amusing in one series does not mean that it should appear elsewhere. In fact, it precludes it.

    Here's what we know.

    - The Star Gods appeared to the Kilrathi several thousand years ago. They found the Kilrathi unworth of conquest and warned them that they would return in the future to fight them once again. (ICIS Manual)
    - The Nephilim are the Star Gods. (WCP Demo)

    This doesn't really leave much room for debate, as fun as it is to steal stuff from Babylon 5. Nor is there any reason to. Another rule: If it aint broke, don't fix it.

    (In case you hadn't noticed, though, we sort of follow the cloaking device through its development -- from the missile based ones in the movie, the first sensor cloak in WCA, the attack on the scientists developing the device in SWC and then the full fledged cloaked ships in WC2).

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  9. Twister

    Twister Spaceman

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    "You go, LOAF! Get some!"
     
  10. Rider

    Rider Spaceman

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    I don't understand a thing in this part of the topic.what is what and where's where [​IMG]
     
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  11. Hero

    Hero Spaceman

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    I didn't say that that's the way it was, I just said that these are ideas I've been playing along in my mind (or at least that's what I should have said...). And as for the clocking device, I'm pretty sure that in one of the manuals there's a mention that the clocking device was created from the ruins of an aincent civelazation that was on Kilrah (or maybe it was about the PTC, or both, I donno, I'll look it over and reply again).

    And LOAF, thinking about things that might be can be a much fun as trying to fix things that don't fit in, and both are better then whining [​IMG].

    [This message has been edited by Hero (edited July 13, 2000).]
     
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  12. WildFire

    WildFire Spaceman

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    Actually, I believe that perhaps Shane's idea about the Nephilim is the most believable. Very Impressive Shane.

    *You know its gotta be good, if it brings me out of my lurker state [​IMG]*

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  13. Shane

    Shane Spaceman

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    Like I said, it's just some ideas bouncing in my noggin'. I'm trying to keep within the WCframework, unlike the movie [​IMG] Just kidding LOAF.

    The timing of the Nephilium arrival almost has to do with the destruction of Kilrah. Assuming the Nephillium are the Star Gods (which makes sense), it could be the case that they were distracted by a real threat, as I mentioned before, and they told the Kilrathi they would be back. The Kilrathi could have interpreted this as the fact the Kilrathi were unworthy warriors. I assume you guys have all played the telephone game in class. The teacher wispers into one students ear a secret. That student passes it to the next person, until it goes through the whole class and the last person tells the teacher what they heard. It usually only vaguely resembles the original statement. Remember we are dealing with history (if you are being generous) that is thousands of years old. Another example is you sometimes will have multiple witnesses to a traffic accident who have wildly different descriptions of the same event. Part of it is a matter of perspective and part of it is the biases the witness carries with him or her.

    I've not quite gotten around to plaing Secret Ops, yet. I got a copy of Prophecy Gold (I was out of the country during the orignal giveaway) but haven't had time to play it. I'm under the impression the bugs did punch another hole nearer to Earth, but I don't know if it was just in a normal section of space or a place where there was another disruption, like the destruction of Kilrah. I've also entertained the notion that the Nephilium were related in some way to the Steltek (their bad children, an experiment gone awry, etc), and were banished, but I don't know that the dates would work.

    Finally it could be that the myth is just that a Myth and the Nephilium are nothing more than invaders. The Aztecs interpeted their myths to believe that the Spanish were returning gods. However, I'd like for the Star Gods and the Nephilium to be one in the same, I just wish I'd get an explanation as to where they have been all this time. But it's fun coming up with your own. I usually do this when I'm trying to go to sleep, it's easier than stressing about the real world.
     
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  14. Hero

    Hero Spaceman

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    Hmmmm, I can't find what I was looking for, but I'm sure I've seen it somewhere (littler help anyone?)...

    Anyway, what I was trying to say didn't come out the way I meant it, so just ignore all the mumbo jumbo I've written (excpt the part about the clocking device and the PTC, I'd really apriciate if someone can find what I think I've seen somewhere [​IMG]).

    I think I'll stop now, yeah, that'll do...
     
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  15. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    Err... am I the only one here capable of not failing to get the point [​IMG]? The Star Gods told the Kilrathi that they'd return and either fight them equally if they succeed *or* slaughter them if they fail... Kilrah being blown up is the failure, and the Nephilim have returned to wipe them out.
     
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  16. Twister

    Twister Spaceman

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    uhhuh, but finly (what the hell does she know, right? [​IMG]) sais that they also had no idea that we would be here...
     
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  17. Shane

    Shane Spaceman

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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bandit LOAF:
    Err... am I the only one here capable of not failing to get the point [​IMG]? The Star Gods told the Kilrathi that they'd return and either fight them equally if they succeed *or* slaughter them if they fail... Kilrah being blown up is the failure, and the Nephilim have returned to wipe them out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The question I have is why? The Nephilium don't seem to be big fans of a fair fight, so why not kick the snot out of the Kilrathi the first time. Why wait until Kilrah was destoryed? It'd be like telling a four year old you're going to kill him if he ever ends up in the hospital when he's in his 70s with a heart attack.

    As far as the Star Gods/Nephilium thing goes, I think we are on the same track. I'm just saying I think the Kilrathi inrerpreted what happened those many years ago a different way than maybe it actually played out. Much like the Battle of Troy is not quite acurately laid out in the Iliad or the return of Odysseus in the Odyssey. It is a combo of myth AND history.


    [This message has been edited by Shane (edited July 13, 2000).]
     
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  18. Hero

    Hero Spaceman

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    The thing that I'm not comfortable with is not the fact that the bugs are the stargods (this part I actually like and agree to), but more of the Prophecy: It clearly states that the Kats will go through *hell*, and so far, it doesn't seems to be happening. So concidering the Prophecy must come true, either Confed's gonna lose, or just give the Kats to the Bugs.
     
  19. Frosty

    Frosty a full fledged GF

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    Shane, WC history is not open to speculation, at the very least not the kind you're engaging in. Generally when someone such as yourself "thinks" these kinds of skewed and off-the-wall "thoughts" about WC history and storyline it's because you don't have all the information before you. Wheras when LOAF says something, it's gospel, simply because HE KNOWS EVERYTHING about WC. And if there's something he doesn't know, he has access to about 20 or so people who've WORKED ON WC who DO KNOW, so accept the fact that LOAF IS NEVER WRONG.

    That said, I'd like you to note that LOAF said:
    "- The Star Gods appeared to the Kilrathi several thousand years ago. They found the Kilrathi unworth of conquest and warned them that they would return in the future to fight them once again. (ICIS Manual)
    - The Nephilim are the Star Gods. (WCP Demo)"

    To which you replied:
    "...Assuming the Nephillium are the Star Gods (which makes sense)..."

    Which makes no sense. Why, you ask? Because LOAF said they ARE. ARE signifying a definite fact, one that CANNOt be disputed. Your reply makes it seem that you think his statements to be as much speculation as your own. LOAF does not speculate. LOAF KNOWS.

    THAT said, I can't believe that this thread has anywhere to go, so I'm killing it. It can do no good, and would only serve to breed more mindless speculation resulting in WRONG thoughts and ideas pertaining to WC.

    I would also like to urge everyone from answering WC-related questions unless you have a book in front of you that has a definite answer. If you lack that, let LOAF handle it. He won't be WRONG.

    And Hero, cloaking is spelled with an A, not a C.




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  20. Death

    Death gh0d (Administrator)

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    Contrary to what Frosty may think, the closing of threads is not for the purpose of supressing any and all topics that the closer doesn't agree with or like. Therefore, this thread is re-opened.

    HOWEVER, there will be no further discussion on the rightness or wrongness of the original closing of this or any other thread on this or any other CZ forum, as stated in the rules for the WC CIC Chat zone, which you had to agree to for the purposes of being allowed to post.

    If you wish to discuss the subject of thread closings, deletions, or other administrative actions, the ChatZone staff can be contacted via e-mail at chatzone@wcnews.com. Any public postings on the subject on any forum under CIC staff's control are subject to deletion without further discussion.

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    [This message has been edited by Death (edited July 14, 2000).]
     
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