What is with the Nephilim?

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Assassin

Spaceman
One of the interesting aspects to me about the Nephilium is Casey's conversation with Zero about it. Zero says that the word "Nephilium" comes from "...an ancient Terran Biblical text." I'm assuming he's referring to the Bible, since Genesis refers to the "sons of God" coming to live with the "sons of man". I've heard theologians call these "sons of God" Nephilum (different spelling). Their thinking is that perhaps they were fallen angels (demons) who came to earth and started marrying human women and having children. In the end movie, when Blair fights the bug, it looks like it has dragon-like wings, almost like I picture a "fallen angel". Does this have a WC tie-in? I don't know, really. However, it may seem to fit the term "Star Gods" if the Nephilum were somehow descendents of fallen angels or something like that. Its pretty interesting, I think, and one of the areas I was hoping would be explored in futhur WC games.
 

Knight

Spaceman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frosty:
Shane, WC history is not open to speculation, at the very least not the kind you're engaging in. Generally when someone such as yourself "thinks" these kinds of skewed and off-the-wall "thoughts" about WC history and storyline it's because you don't have all the information before you. Wheras when LOAF says something, it's gospel, simply because HE KNOWS EVERYTHING about WC. And if there's something he doesn't know, he has access to about 20 or so people who've WORKED ON WC who DO KNOW, so accept the fact that LOAF IS NEVER WRONG.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, I'm not going to debate on how LOAF is eternal WC knowledge and all that, because he is, but, how can you say that WC is notopen to speculation? Did Origin not set up the WCP storyline for a trilogy, then drop that idea, pick up online, then drop WC altogether (not permentantly I hope
)? If so, then I believe that leaves alot ot speculate about the Nephilim's history, and their future. If it wasn't for "skewed, off-the-wall thoughts," where would Science fiction be today?

Anyway, I like Shane's little description, but I think there should be something added.
&lt;begin speculation&gt;When the Nephilim delcared the Kats "unworthy" and vowed to return one day when they were strong enough, supposed they left some sort of device on Kilrah, say, oh, in one of those great Temples, or just buried the damn thing in the center of the planet. The device, feeding off energy derived from the planet, was set to send out a beacon to the Nephilim, should it ever be destroyed, meaning that:
A: The Kats were finally smart enough to figure out what it was and destroy it, deeming themselves worthy to fend off the "Star Gods," or:
B: The Kats were beaten in war, and therefore needed to be wiped out completely.

Now, this device put some strange effects on Kilrah. It's power deprivation from the planets core energy, set off some tectonic reactions, which caused a chain reaction, that made it into the rock of volcanic activity it is today (Well, yesterday, depends on what game you're currently playing
).&lt;end speculation&gt;

This is clearly speculation, as you can see, but fairly believeable speculation. I mean, if there were hear many, many milennia ago, before mankind was around, hell, possibly before Earth was around, you would think they'd have had the technology to build such a device.

&lt;begin speculation again&gt; Now, present day, 2683. The Nephilim take some time to hear this beacon that's been set off, since it's not able to go through jump gates or wormholes, etc. I can't quite remember the exact dates, etc, but wasn't it something like 14 years after TDoKilrah? I forget, anyway, they get this beacon, well, instead of sending an entire fleet through, they want to know what happened to set off the beacon, and they want to know quickly, so they open the wormhole, and send in a small fleet (with a shipkiller just in case). Now, they immediately find that Kilrah has been destroyed, not to mention the Confed Research vessel.&lt;end speculation again&gt;

Anybody following me on this? I've got more, but I want to know how many tomatos are going to be thrown before I give the audience a bucketful.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited July 15, 2000).]
 
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Knight

Spaceman
Ok, I was told to post the rest of this, rather than leave an incomplete thought up here, so if you haven't already, read the post below this one first.

&lt;re-begin speculaion&gt;
Ok, where was I, ah, yes...So the bugs come through, and find Kilrah gone, and find some Terrans. So they decide that they need to fulfill their promise, wipe out what's left of the Kilrathi, and the ones that beat them. They fight through what we know (WCP and SO) and wind up back where they started, minus one wormhole, with another that has a Confed controlled side. Basically, they'd be in a losing fight, because you know every wormwhole they open would be met with extreme force, considering that Confed shouldn't have any troubles funding their Military now, since that senator's Uncle Eddie's worst nightmare has come true. basically thats all I have. I had some more, but I've lost it, in all of 10 mins, but it's late, I'm tired, so I'm going to bed to sleep on this. Sorry to promise more then not deliver, but can't help it.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.
 
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Death

gh0d (Administrator)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Assassin:
One of the interesting aspects to me about the Nephilium is Casey's conversation with Zero about it. Zero says that the word "Nephilium" comes from "...an ancient Terran Biblical text." I'm assuming he's referring to the Bible, since Genesis refers to the "sons of God" coming to live with the "sons of man". I've heard theologians call these "sons of God" Nephilum (different spelling). Their thinking is that perhaps they were fallen angels (demons) who came to earth and started marrying human women and having children. In the end movie, when Blair fights the bug, it looks like it has dragon-like wings, almost like I picture a "fallen angel". Does this have a WC tie-in? I don't know, really. However, it may seem to fit the term "Star Gods" if the Nephilum were somehow descendents of fallen angels or something like that. Its pretty interesting, I think, and one of the areas I was hoping would be explored in futhur WC games.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the name "Nephilim" was a code name assigned to the bugs by Confed Intel, before the whole subject of the Prophecy of Sivar came up. A somewhat circumspect coincidence, but coincidence nonetheless.

(The writers might have had that context in mind, but it's not part of the official WC universe canon.)

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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
 
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Death

gh0d (Administrator)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Knight:
Ok, I'm not going to debate on how LOAF is eternal WC knowledge and all that, because he is, but, how can you say that WC is not open to speculation? Did Origin not set up the WCP storyline for a trilogy, then drop that idea, pick up online, then drop WC altogether (not permentantly I hope
)? If so, then I believe that leaves alot ot speculate about the Nephilim's history, and their future. If it wasn't for "skewed, off-the-wall thoughts," where would Science fiction be today?

Anyway, I like Shane's little description, but I think there should be something added.
&lt;begin speculation&gt;When the Nephilim delcared the Kats "unworthy" and vowed to return one day when they were strong enough, supposed they left some sort of device on Kilrah, say, oh, in one of those great Temples, or just buried the damn thing in the center of the planet. The device, feeding off energy derived from the planet, was set to send out a beacon to the Nephilim, should it ever be destroyed, meaning that:
A: The Kats were finally smart enough to figure out what it was and destroy it, deeming themselves worthy to fend off the "Star Gods," or:
B: The Kats were beaten in war, and therefore needed to be wiped out completely.

Now, this device put some strange effects on Kilrah. It's power deprivation from the planets core energy, set off some tectonic reactions, which caused a chain reaction, that made it into the rock of volcanic activity it is today (Well, yesterday, depends on what game you're currently playing
).&lt;end speculation&gt;

This is clearly speculation, as you can see, but fairly believeable speculation. I mean, if there were hear many, many milennia ago, before mankind was around, hell, possibly before Earth was around, you would think they'd have had the technology to build such a device.

&lt;begin speculation again&gt; Now, present day, 2683. The Nephilim take some time to hear this beacon that's been set off, since it's not able to go through jump gates or wormholes, etc. I can't quite remember the exact dates, etc, but wasn't it something like 14 years after TDoKilrah? I forget, anyway, they get this beacon, well, instead of sending an entire fleet through, they want to know what happened to set off the beacon, and they want to know quickly, so they open the wormhole, and send in a small fleet (with a shipkiller just in case). Now, they immediately find that Kilrah has been destroyed, not to mention the Confed Research vessel.&lt;end speculation again&gt;

Anybody following me on this? I've got more, but I want to know how many tomatos are going to be thrown before I give the audience a bucketful.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, for starters, the whole part of your therory regarding Kilrah's techtonic activity is full of enough holes to make swiss cheese look solid.

For starters, the Prophecy of Sivar dates back thousands of years. Kilrah, if it follows the general development cycle of Earth (nothing available contradicts that assumption), has been in its present state for at least a couple billion years.

Also, even assuming some techno-babble method of "feeding off energy derived from the planet" (which in itself is another problem with your theory), draining energy would reduce the activity of the core, not increase it. Reduced activity would make for a world that's less tectonically active, though it'd be too late by then to effect Kilrathi social evolution.

In short, the theory stinks.


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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
 
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Mad Hatter

Spaceman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Assassin:
One of the interesting aspects to me about the Nephilium is Casey's conversation with Zero about it. Zero says that the word "Nephilium" comes from "...an ancient Terran Biblical text." I'm assuming he's referring to the Bible, since Genesis refers to the "sons of God" coming to live with the "sons of man". I've heard theologians call these "sons of God" Nephilum (different spelling). Their thinking is that perhaps they were fallen angels (demons) who came to earth and started marrying human women and having children. In the end movie, when Blair fights the bug, it looks like it has dragon-like wings, almost like I picture a "fallen angel". Does this have a WC tie-in? I don't know, really. However, it may seem to fit the term "Star Gods" if the Nephilum were somehow descendents of fallen angels or something like that. Its pretty interesting, I think, and one of the areas I was hoping would be explored in futhur WC games.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just for the record, Nephilum, or actually Nephilim , means giants in anciant hebrew, so there is some corrolation between what Confed decided to call the bugs and what the prophecy of Sivar refers to them as.

Oh, and btw, doesn`t it say at the beginning of Action Stations that the Kilrathi detect some sort of force moving towards kilrathi space from the direction of the core of the galaxy, and that it should reach their space in about 50 years?



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Sometimes you`re the windshield
Sometimes you`re the BUG...
 

Knight

Spaceman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Death:
For starters, the Prophecy of Sivar dates back thousands of years. Kilrah, if it follows the general development cycle of Earth (nothing available contradicts that assumption), has been in its present state for at least a couple billion years.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, but nothing available confirms that assumption either. Every habitiable planet doesn't have to have the same development cycle as Earth. Not saying you didn't know that, just reminding you.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also, even assuming some techno-babble method of "feeding off energy derived from the planet" (which in itself is another problem with your theory), draining energy would reduce the activity of the core, not increase it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My theory there, was that the draining of energy would make the planet's core unstable. Not drain the damn thing of all energy. Plus I misused a word there, draining. I should've just used 'uses' but I wasn't thinking strait.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Reduced activity would make for a world that's less tectonically active, though it'd be too late by then to effect Kilrathi social evolution.

In short, the theory stinks.

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, there's one...anybody else?

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited July 15, 2000).]
 
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Chernikov

Spaceman
The question that's really been bugging me (no pun intended) is why the star gods promised to return and fight the Kilrathi... If they were serious about fighting an enemy on equal techical footing on a millenia-old promise (a war which they might likely lose) and theyre apparently doing this because they dont get their kicks out of wiping out weaker species, then they must have so many resources to let them do this on a semi-regular basis. IE if they ever come down on us full force we are well and truly screwed. I dont buy the "promised as leaving" or "left and the lack of a war was interpreted as" because there is no reason to promise a future war when youre loosing mass territory in this one, and if an enemy ditched on a warrior species wouldnt they consider it "watching the frightened enemy flee from the might of glorious Kilrah" instead of playing it up as a great snub to an unworthy species?
 

Death

gh0d (Administrator)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Knight:
Yeah, but nothing available confirms that assumption either. Every habitiable planet doesn't have to have the same development cycle as Earth. Not saying you didn't know that, just reminding you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While not every habitable world is like Earth (Star Trek to the contrary...), there are limits on how soon Kilrah could become the way it is, the earliest of those limits being quite a few degrees further in the past than the Prophecy. Geophysics isn't all that terribly maleable.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>My theory there, was that the draining of energy would make the planet's core unstable. Not drain the damn thing of all energy. Plus I misused a word there, draining. I should've just used 'uses' but I wasn't thinking strait<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't think you meant drain it of all energy. However, given simple physics, if you drain off energy you basically make it less active, hence more stable, not less.

While theories are fine to come up with, don't expect them to stand too long if not based on facts.

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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
 
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Knight

Spaceman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Death:
I didn't think you meant drain it of all energy. However, given simple physics, if you drain off energy you basically make it less active, hence more stable, not less.

While theories are fine to come up with, don't expect them to stand too long if not based on facts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, some things are made unstable by taking away energy. &lt;insert sarcasim&gt;Like shields on a ship
&lt;/sarcasim&gt;. But seriously, there are things made unstable by taking away energy. And if physics follows suit, planets are a possibility, but it depends on the major factors, age, composition, formation, etc. Hell, lets say that the beacon used energy from the planet to power it, but the bugs did something Dr. Evil style and sent a missle to the center of the Earth, making every volcano on the planet erupt, and making new holes in some more of the thinners parts of Kilrah's crust. Still doesn't completely support my theory, like anything ever will, but it's a start.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.
 
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Shane

Spaceman
Argh, I left the manual I wanted at home. I do recall one theory of Kilrathi development (it was in the Victory Streak) was that the tectonic instability is what lead to their aggressive nature. However, if you look at human evolutionary theory, you'll find a variety of diferent theories that try to explain human behavior. Remember too that ConFed has little to work with from the point of view of Kilrathi culture and history. I'm sure they've got some info from prisoners or captured data, but a real study was not possible during the war and with Kilrah gone, so to are probably some unique historical data, not to mention the physical evidence that was the planet Kilrah. Humanities experience with the Kilrathi, for the most part is limited except on the subject of warfare.

Also it is hard to say how scientifically inclined the Kilrathi are. I believe End Run (maybe Fleet Action) stated the the Kilarthi had developed nuclear weapons on their own and may have been on the verge of destroying themselves with them, except another species showed up, and taught them the secrets of the jump-points. The Kilrathi "thanked" them for this by annihilating them. Outside of warfare, the scientifc capabilities of the Kilrathi are mostly unknown. The point of that ramble was that the Kilrathi themselves may not have studied their planet all that much, though to be able to reach the stage of nuclear weapons they would have to have considerable knowledge of the Hard Sciences. However, it is unclear if they spent time and energy into looking into why they were so earthquake-prone.

Anyhow, I agree with Knight (or he agrees with me
) that there seems to be some connection with the tectonic instability of Kilrah, the wormhole and therefore the Nephilim. Maybe part of what happened was a shift in Kilarh's orbit, perhaps a tad closer to her star? That might explain a few things. That, however, would lead to the question of what tinkered with Kilrah's orbit, but didn't completely wreck the planet and kill everything on it.
 
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Quarto

Unknown Enemy
This is silly. Why on earth would you think there's a connection between Kilrah's unstability, the wormhole, and the Nephilem?

There are wormholes in every system (more than one, in fact) except Dallas. The only thing that makes this one special is that it's not a proper wormhole - instead of a jump point, it is merely a jump rift. Big deal. There's gotta be dozens of those around all over Confed. Common sense indicates that there's more such jump rifts in the universe than there are proper jump points.

There is absolutely nothing unusual about the planet being unstable, either. Once again, common sense indicates that there's gotta be lots and lots of such planets. Or hadn't you noticed that when the prototype T-Bomb arrived on the Victory, they only had to make one jump to find a planet as unstable as Kilrah?

Given that common sense indicates that neither jump rifts nor unstable planets are uncommon, common sense also indicates that there is no reason to suspect a link between those two factors and the Nephilem.

I mean, come on. I'm sure there are all sorts of weird geological formations in Mexico, but you don't hear people claiming that there's a connection between those and Hernando Cortez, do you?
 

Knight

Spaceman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quarto:
This is silly. Why on earth would you think there's a connection between Kilrah's unstability, the wormhole, and the Nephilem?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't you think it's silly and coincidental that Just a short time after Kilrah is gone, we have a Holy Shit Load of bad guys come streaming in, wishing to anniliate a race they, in your opinion, have never met before? I mean, we've seen the Bug's tech, you know they've had that for a while (somewhere near a couple thousand years and up is what I'm thinking). I mean, we KNOW they're the StarGods, LOAF said so himself. If they were there along time ago, and promised to come back, don't you see the pattern forming here? Something had to do with the destruction of Kilrah and their return. The connection is what we're debating, and right now is full of speculation. I mean, we don't KNOW shit. The only ones that know are the guys who were writing the storyline for WCP2 (and 3, depends on if they were going to include SO in the triliogy...) But that's the fun of it, making the connections, and filling in the information holes with what we know, and what we can make educated guesses on.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>There is absolutely nothing unusual about the planet being unstable, either. Once again, common sense indicates that there's gotta be lots and lots of such planets. Or hadn't you noticed that when the prototype T-Bomb arrived on the Victory, they only had to make one jump to find a planet as unstable as Kilrah?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, we're going to take up valuable game time just so we can go bouncing around planets finding one suitable for testing. Hm.......ever hear of a well-thought gameline, guess what, BINGO. I mean, I'm not saying that there's not planets like that everywhere, it's just coincidental storyline.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>I mean, come on. I'm sure there are all sorts of weird geological formations in Mexico, but you don't hear people claiming that there's a connection between those and Hernando Cortez, do you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, but there is a connection between him and why people get the shits when they drink Mexican water, wanna hear that? Let's stick to the subject at hand.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Anyhow, I agree with Knight (or he agrees with me ) that there seems to be some connection with the tectonic instability of Kilrah, the wormhole and therefore the nephilim. Maybe part of what happened was a shift in Kilarh's orbit, perhaps a tad closer to her star? That might explain a few things. That, however, would lead to the question of what tinkered with Kilrah's orbit, but didn't completely wreck the planet and kill everything on it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First, Shane, I agreed with you, I just felt you left some stuff out, which is why I posted that

Ok, Quarto, since you seem the be the wormhole expert in this thread, you must know that wormholes open and close under their own power all the time. Ok, we KNOW they opened a wormhole in WCP. Now, the wormhole in WCP was pretty damn close to Kilrah's orbit. (BTW, thanks for giving me this idea Shane). Supposed that those thousands of years ago, they opened another wormhole. (how else were they supposed to get here?) This wormhole created the energy surge that we heard about in the ICIS manual, except this time, it had a direct effect on Kilrah and it's orbit. I'm no expert in the science of space, just what I've learned in astronomy, so correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't an energy surge of the magnitude we're talking cause a shift or at least rattle some windows someplace. I mean, com'on. Now the Bugs came in and did their little evaluation of the Kilrathi, then decided they were unworthy and left, vowing to come back. They leave the same way they came in, through the wormhole, cept it's still open. Now since this one didn't get reinforced like the one in Prophecy, it probably hung around a few more (months? years? Decades?), before it eventually closed itself. Now this closing created another energy surge, just like the one in Prophecy when the hole closed, and the combination of those two surges that close to Kilrah caused it's instability. You must remember, that practically, this wormhole was a lot closer than our sun, or Kilrah's star was. Factor that in when you figure how much energy we recieve from something so far away, and how much trouble an energy surge off the scale, from far and behold closer to the planet, would cause. Let alone two of them in a relivtivly close amount of time (in a planets age anyway). These surges either did what Shane said and knocked the planet a smidgen out of it's orbit before the star's gravity caught it, or it jarred the planet to the point of tectonic instability.

And one more thing, about the Bugs' wormhole and all the others out there, the difference is this one isn't natural. It was opened via Nep technology. How else to you explain the damn thign moving in the opening scene(s) of WCP. Natural wormholes are stationary, at least every one of them I've ever heard of has been.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited July 17, 2000).]
 
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Quarto

Unknown Enemy
&lt;Sigh&gt; Nobody ever understands me
.

I did not say that there's no connection between the Nephilem and the Kilrathi. Nor did I say that the Nephilem are not the Star Gods.

However, there is absolutely no reason to suspect that their interest in the Kilrathi species had any adverse effects on the Kilrathi planet.

Fact 1: The Kilrathi were sentient by the time the bugs arrived. This is clearly supported by the fact that they assembled their armies to meet the Star Gods, and by their ability to recognise the importance of keeping records.

Fact 2: The Kilrathi civilisation developed on an unstable planet with a lot of volcanic activity. Read Victory Streak for details. I believe that the Movie Handbook also says something to that effect, though I haven't seen it.

Fact 1 and 2 combined seem to me to link into fact 3:

Fact 3: Therefore, Kilrah was unstable long before the Nephilem arrived.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Ok, we KNOW they opened a wormhole in WCP.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's nice... but they merely opened it. They did not create it. It had always been there. If this wormhole, therefore, had been enough to cause such tectonic instability as we are talking about in the case of Kilrah, and if this wormhole had always been there, then we can only assume that Kilrah would have never been stable enough for the development of life - assuming that it even existed. Therefore, we must assume that the wormhole has absolutely nothing to do with Kilrah's unstability, and that it in fact has no effect whatosever on the system. This is further supported by the fact that neither Kilrah nor any of its celestial neighbours had anomalous orbits. They all have perfectly elliptical orbits, which indicate that they are not under the influence of anything except the star known as Kilrah.

Furthermore, if you're going to use the ICIS to support your theory, then at least have the decency to note that the ICIS outright disproves your theory, in the fact that this energy surge caused by the wormhole opening was so utterly insignificant that it got written off as the reflection of a solar flare. It had no influence whatsoever or anything.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>These surges either did what Shane said and knocked the planet a smidgen out of it's orbit before the star's gravity caught it, or it jarred the planet to the point of tectonic instability.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even if this could be true (but it's not, because we've just established that the surge is not influential), it would still not do what you suggest. Why? Pick up an egg. Shake it. Is the shell broken? No. Throw the egg across the room. That's some fairly violent force you just applied to that egg, you know. So tell me, did the egg break in flight (as you suggest Kilrah did, with its continental plates breaking up into smaller, layered ones)? No. It broke when it hit the wall. Therefore, we can assume that even if the surge had the ability to influence anything, it would have had to shove Kilrah into another large object to cause such changes. Unfortunately, then the fate of Kilrah would have been much like that of the egg. In other words, it would have to be scraped off the wall
.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>And one more thing, about the Bugs' wormhole and all the others out there, the difference is this one isn't natural.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree, and so does Science Officer Aurora Finley. The wormhole is quite natural.
 
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KillerWave

Spaceman
Uh...didnt Finley said somewhere in the wcp cutscenes that the wormhole was artificially induced over a NATURAL anomaly in the bugs space that allowed them to get to confed space?
And that their force where some sort of a expeditionary force, that wouldnt expect to find us here (assuming that this includes the kilrathi)?
Talking about theories, can someone explain to me why the bugs, if they are actually these star gods, would wait until the Kilrathi where worthy, waiting them to develop to the level that they would actually had a chance to fight, instead of destroying Kilrah without trouble?

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Well, its classified... i mean, i could tell you, but then i have to kill you...


[This message has been edited by KillerWave (edited July 18, 2000).]
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Yes she did, KW.
As for her second statement... well, I think she actually meant Confed. I'm assuming that they knew all too well about the Kilrathi. In fact, I'd have to argue that they did know about Confed. I mean, their intelligence was so damned good that they even knew of the Kilrathi smugglers on 7.4.

As for your question... well, that's the whole point. There's so much arguing going on about the "how", but nobody seems brave enough to pose a theory regarding the "why"
.
 
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Knight

Spaceman
At the beginning, shall we?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>However, there is absolutely no reason to suspect that their interest in the kilrathi species had any adverse effects on the Kilrathi planet.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I beg to differ.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Fact 1: The Kilrathi were sentient by the time the bugs arrived. This is clearly supported by the fact that they assembled their armies to meet the Star Gods, and by their ability to recognise the importance of
keeping records.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, are we calling rock throwing baboons sentient beings? Because bascially, that's what they probably were. As for keeping records, think about how the original records of human history were kept, they were stories, passed along from grandpas to grandkids. Some of family history is like that today. Do you think Kilrah didn't evolve the same way? Do you think that just because they were smart enough to get a bunch of themselves together to try and fend off anniliation, they were smart enough to keep records? Lions assemble in prides in africa to defend from other spieces of attackers, and kill their prey, yet I don't see one with glasses and a Five-Star notebook out their writing down when, where, how long it took, and what kind of animal they killed.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Fact 2: The Kilrathi civilisation developed on an unstable planet with a lot of volcanic activity. Read Victory Streak for details. I believe that the Movie Handbook also says something to that effect, though I haven't seen it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, might have been. But do we really know all the official stuff about Kilrah? I mean, it's kinda hard to examine their records, since we blew them all to hell. Don't you think?

Though, while I agree with you on Fact three,
Is Earth a stable planet? That depends on your defination of stable. My Astronomy and Space teachings may be fading, but my Earth Science classes last year aren't.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>That's nice... but they merely opened it. They did not create it. It had always been there. If this wormhole, therefore, had been enough to cause such tectonic instability as we are talking about in the case of Kilrah, and if this wormhole had always been there, then we can only assume that Kilrah would have never been stable enough for the development of life - assuming that it even existed. Therefore, we must assume that the wormhole has absolutely nothing to do with Kilrah's unstability, and that it in fact has no effect whatosever on the system. This is further supported by the fact that neither Kilrah nor any of its celestial neighbours had anomalous orbits. They all have perfectly elliptical orbits, which indicate that they are not under the influence of anything except the star known as Kilrah.

Furthermore, if you're going to use the ICIS to support your theory, then at least have the decency to note that the ICIS outright disproves your theory, in the fact that this energy surge caused by the wormhole opening was so utterly insignificant that it got written off as the reflection of a solar flare. It had no influence whatsoever or anything.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, so I was wrong about the wormhole being artificial. All I remembered was Finley saying something about and artifical anomaly. So sue me.

With your second part, don't you think that when something's off the damn charts on the instruments, and then a bunch of bad guys shows up, it's time to start kicking the screw ups ass that didn't report that? I mean, once we knew that the bugs were there, IE the Midway's initial distress signal, that all of that data would be brought back and re-worked over with a fine tooth comb for anything out of order? "...a tightly focused pules of energy, .165 of a second in duration. It measured 47,000 dG in intensity and crossed the subspace spectrum from the mk 1772 down to mk 3500 (the lower limit of the K105 detection equipment). THe surge fit the profile of no known subspace energy source. The event occurred at 018.1441.26 and at 1502 was manually flagged as a probable false reading by technicians at the observatory, according to the K105 sensor logs." Ok. I thought that by that point in time, we'd know what solar flares do to our instruments, along with most other space anomalies. I may be wrong though.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Even if this could be true (but it's not, because we've just established that the surge is not influential), it would still not do what you suggest. Why? Pick up an egg. Shake it. Is the shell broken? No. Throw the
egg across the room. That's some fairly violent force you just applied to that egg, you know. So tell me, did the egg break in flight (as you suggest Kilrah did, with its continental plates breaking up into smaller, layered ones)? No. It broke when it hit the wall. Therefore, we can assume that even if the surge had the ability to influence anything, it would have had to shove Kilrah into another large object to cause such changes. Unfortunately, then the fate of Kilrah would have been much like that of the egg. In other words, it would have to be scraped off the wall .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, apply an energy pulse to that egg. A very strong, concentrated one. Let's use a laser, bad example, but it's all I've got to work with. Flash a laser for .165 of second at the side of the egg. (not one of hte cheap store bought ones, a medical quality cutting one.) See what happens? A hole was burnt in the shell, and some of the insides got nuced (cooked). Just that little short duration of energy, and look at the damage you did. Take this on a much, much, much larger scale. It would probably be the equivilent of an earthquake here, a small one, probably wouldn't register, but it would be spread out, instead of concentrated above the source, like the ones we have now. This is all theory, and I just want you to know, that while I think I do, I have no clue what I'm talking about. However, if it makes any sense at all, I'll follow it, which is why I agree with Shane.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Yes she did, KW.
As for her second statement... well, I think she actually meant Confed. I'm assuming that they knew all too well about the Kilrathi. In fact, I'd have to argue that they did know about Confed. I mean, their intelligence was so damned good that they even knew of the Kilrathi smugglers on 7.4.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I doubt it was their intelligence that led them to the hidden smuggler base. My guess would be their advanced sensors or the smugglers thought they could take them and attacked. We have no evidence of that incident, so lets stick with one we only have a little. As for the 'why', I'm sure we'll get to that, eventually. Shane's the one with the ideas. I just expand on his



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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited July 18, 2000).]
 
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Knight

Spaceman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KillerWave:
Uh...didnt Finley said somewhere in the wcp cutscenes that the wormhole was artificially induced over a NATURAL anomaly in the bugs space that allowed them to get to confed space?
And that their force where some sort of a expeditionary force, that wouldnt expect to find us here (assuming that this includes the kilrathi)?
Talking about theories, can someone explain to me why the bugs, if they are actually these star gods, would wait until the Kilrathi where worthy, waiting them to develop to the level that they would actually had a chance to fight, instead of destroying Kilrah without trouble?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The bugs are warriors, not murders. They want a fight, I'm assuming, it's what they live for. Coincidentally, like the Kilrathi. Hm...another connection...the Kilrathi live for war...so do the bugs...

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.
 
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Knight

Spaceman
And remind me again, how do we know the Nephilim weren't around long before the Kilrathi became those sentient beings you were talking about? They could've been floating around Kilrah's side of the galaxy for hundreds, if not thousands of years, before they found the Kilrathi. It's a big galaxy, to say the least.

Ah, and listen to this one:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR> This myth is the source of the famous "Prophecy of SIvar" (which many xenohistorians believe predates its report authoress, the prophetess Kt'lan, and even the historical prophet Sivar himself by several centuries)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ok, so assuming this is true, we're talking a couple of thousand years before sivar.


And I don't remember who said it, but as a re-read this thread earlier, I like the theory that they Nephilim saw a threat by anything that destroyed the Kilrathi, and that's why they came.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.
 
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