What happened to the Black Lance?

[Nep Parth]

Er, the Germans weren't evil...

(I'm going to mention my Psych AP credentials again. Yes LOAF, this'll be the last time...)

The German society was set up so that, basically, you follow ANY orders you were given. A famous study done by Millgram shows that, if a person...even an American...instructed you to do something, under the right conditions, you could easily kill someone horribly and painfully.

Now, don't respond by saying, "no i would never do anything like that, you're wrong Nep". You would, I would, we all would. All it would take is an authority figure we respected (like, say, someone who took us out of national debt) and the right situation, and we would follow their orders. If you want to debate with me, go read Millgram's study.

It's a little scary. Especially since the defense of most of the officers at Nurembourg was "I was just following orders..."

 

[RFBurns]

Anyone following orders "blindly" shouldnt be in the position to act on those orders. The one giving the orders of such a nature that goes against morals and plain common sense has no business giving those orders, regardless if the said person took a nation out of debt or otherwise. To wipe out millions just because of their race is pure evil. Much like Tolwyn and his genetic bomb. That is a pure evil device for one purpose only, to rid of people they did not like. The Nazis did the same thing with all their so called "labor camps". To lie to millions of unsuspecting people saying "work will make you free", only to lead them into gas chambers and firehouses is downright pure EVIL!

RFB

 

[Dragon]

Well, the US put the japoneses on "security camps" during WW II, they were also following orders, GB deliberated bomb Hanburg to the ground and targeted that city civilian population just to make a example out of it...
The military personal is train to FOLLOW orders without question, because IF they dont, its court marcial for then for insuburdination.
Now the Black Lance was, I belive, a paramilitary organization, they JOIN in, they are responsible for their actions individualy and colective.

 

[Bob McDob]

Originally posted by LeHah
I constantly refuse to believe that Tolwyn would do what he did in WC4. He was crazy, sure, brilliant, yeah, but that doesn't mean you decend into Nazi/Facisim.

I dunno, it doesnt strike me that Tolwyn was evil. Don't get me wrong, I completely dislike Nazism in every form but Tolwyn...is...Tolwyn. I see him more going senile and retiring than going to Nazism...

-J

So does Blair...if you read the book, you see him in a sort of perpetual shock, his deep respect for the Admiral with Telamon and, well, you know...

Anyway, I never really saw Hitler as evil. There's no such thing as evil...there are only people like Hitler. I saw Hitler as a fiercely patriotic, horribly misguided fire-breathing spinmaster with a superiority complex. The war started his descent into madness, eventually leading to his ultimate destruction and suicide.

]

Originally posted by LeHah
*Peter Telep's Tolwyn was the most complex. He seemed to be a lil insane, a lil nuts. He was a good, solid strategist, but patriotic to the point where he'd burn his own country to save his people.

I give you this for your consideration...


Anyway, what -happened- to the Black Lance? Specifically, what happened to the Dragon? I miss those cool ships and the Fusion cannon, and those shields...maybe they're not so impressive now, but I played around with them in Prophecy (not the same thing, I know ) and it still seemed servicable.

Actually, I used to think they sort of faded into the background to become an intergalactic Men in Black, but, well, you know (I gotta stop saying that )...

 

[Bandit LOAF]

No, the Black Lance crews didn't join in (aside from the organizations founders)... the project soldiers were either bred for their job (Seether et al), convinced they were serving the Confederation (the Lexington crew) or hired mercenaries (Evan Bean).

 

[Ghost]

Ahhhhh c'mon, they don´t think or only obey orders ?

 

[Bob McDob]

"What do you see here? Only yes men. All the no men are six feet under".

 

[Ghost]

Well is always the same excuse in every country and in every era.

 

[Wedge009]

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
...or hired mercenaries (Evan Bean).

Evan Bean? Novel info? It'd be funny to have mercs under the command of the Mr Bean.

 

[Quarto]

Originally posted by Shane
Borrowed from Britannica.com:

In personality MacArthur was enigmatic and contradictory. To many he seemed imperious, aloof, egotistical, and pretentious. To others, especially his headquarters staff, he appeared warm, courageous, unostentatious, and even humble. Most authorities agree that he possessed superior intelligence, rare command ability, and zealous dedication to duty, honour, and country.

Heh. To quote General Marshall, MacArthur didn't have a headquarters staff - he had a court. The guy surrounded himself with sycophants - that's why they all said such good thing about him.
As for superior intelligence, rare command ability, et cetera, I seriously doubt that "most authorities" part, because there's a hell of a lot of proof out there that MacArthur was an incompetent dumbass .

 

[Supdon3]

Incompetent dumbasses arent left in charge of so many troops and resources for very long. They are found out relatively soon. MacArthur's failing was his big mouth.

 

[Quarto]

Actually, he stayed in charge because he was a very useful incompetent dumbass . That is to say, Roosevelt used MacArthur. Furthermore, Roosevelt apparently also felt that MacArthur was dangerous (and considering MacArthur's actions during the... what was it called... Battle of Washington, I think - I can't say I disagree) to democracy.

But if you really want to see his incompetency for yourself, study WWII a bit. Why didn't he bomb the hell out of Taiwan immediately after hearing of Pearl Harbour? His stupidity that day cost the Phillipines dearly. Why didn't he act, when he heard of a Japanese naval landing force being gathered in Rabaul? He had been told by Intel where they were probably going, but decided that he knows better. His stupidity that day resulted in one of the toughest campaigns of the Pacific - Kokoda Trail. And while on that topic, he didn't do much to help American-Australian relations either. And I can give you more examples, if you like .

 

[Cadfael]

Originally posted by Dragon
Well, the US put the japoneses on "security camps" during WW II, they were also following orders, GB deliberated bomb Hanburg to the ground and targeted that city civilian population just to make a example out of it...
The military personal is train to FOLLOW orders without question, because IF they dont, its court marcial for then for insuburdination.
Now the Black Lance was, I belive, a paramilitary organization, they JOIN in, they are responsible for their actions individualy and colective.

Don't forget the 2 Atomic Bombs which the insane americans dropped over japan. That is pure evil!!! And the american generals never had to excuse for that. They were no better than any nazi general.

 

[Quarto]

It may be that you're being sarcastic and I'm too sleepy to notice, but just in case you're not...
Dropping the atomic bombs, ironically, saved lives. Lots and lots of lives. All things considered, these two bombs, though very powerful, caused a tiny amount of damage in comparison to the firebombing raids. These raids would have undoubtedly continued until the very end of the war - so, if the atomic bombs brought about a Japanese surrender, then they did save lives. Sad, but true. It's like destroying Kilrah - how many more would have died, both human and Kilrathi, had Blair not dropped the Temblor?

 

[Mekt-Hakkikt]

As the Kilrathi were ready for their final attack, I doubt that there would have been billions of dead Kilrathi. Of course, if the Kilrathi really planned to wipe out humanity, there would have been then billions of dead humans probably.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

*Trillions* died...

Bean was the guy from the bar in the intro, who later gives you the location of the cloaking transport.

 

[Dralthi5]

Yeah, and Bean had a daughter Sosa's age. He must've started real early.

Quarto: Yes, we all know how you feel about MacArthur. Maybe I've been misinformed about him. After all, I got most of my information from the movie with Gregory Peck, which was based off MacArthur's memoirs. If you've ever read them, and I've scanned it a few times, MacArthur tries his best to put himself on a pedestal. He tries to cram every good thing anyone ever said about him into the book.

 

[Cadfael]

Originally posted by Quarto
It may be that you're being sarcastic and I'm too sleepy to notice, but just in case you're not...
Dropping the atomic bombs, ironically, saved lives. Lots and lots of lives. All things considered, these two bombs, though very powerful, caused a tiny amount of damage in comparison to the firebombing raids. These raids would have undoubtedly continued until the very end of the war - so, if the atomic bombs brought about a Japanese surrender, then they did save lives. Sad, but true. It's like destroying Kilrah - how many more would have died, both human and Kilrathi, had Blair not dropped the Temblor?

Sorry but this is exact the same propaganda shit wich the us government spreads throughout the world.
Japan was already on his knees they had no chance to win this war and the us navy was close to an invasion on japan homeland. Droping an atomic bomb on civilians is a crime!
Why didn't they drop it on a japan military base or something like that.
This is a crime against humanity and not something you should be proud of. They just wanted to test their new weapon.

[Edited by Cadfael on 04-21-2001 at 12:33]

 

[redwolf]

I remember it being mentioned somewhere (and also in the movie Shadowmaker....i think thats what it was called) that Hiroshima was left untouched by conventional bombs so they could 'test' the effects of a nuclear bomb on an undamaged city.

And as for the Kokoda trail, indeed that was a tough battle. Australian troops, without assistance, held their ground being outnumbered at least 6 to 1. A minutes silence for those brave men who fought and died there will be observed on Anzac Day (25 April).

With regards to Hitler, thanks Bob McDob, finally someone has been able to describe what he really was, not all this hype that has been promoted through the media this past 60 years (and I wont mention which group of people control a large proportion of western media...suffice it to say you can all figure it out for yourself). For what its worth, they seem to have forgotten what happened to them during WW2... whats the latest killing ratio of Palestinians? 10 to 1?

How easily our race forgets the errors of our past...

 

[RFBurns]

Originally posted by Cadfael

Don't forget the 2 Atomic Bombs which the insane americans dropped over japan. That is pure evil!!! And the american generals never had to excuse for that. They were no better than any nazi general.

Be thankfull the US dropped those, or we all be sitting here exchanging swastikas and stories of imperial rule.
And believe it or not, the US is still paying for those 2 bombs being dropped. Just look at our trade ratio with Japan!

RFB

[Edited by RFBurns on 04-21-2001 at 14:24]