What happened to the Black Lance?

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Ladiesman^

Spaceman
I'm sure this has been talked about many times over, but I'd really like to know. Apparently they still used some of the leftover Dragons just after WC4. Then they kinda dissapeared. I know they were too expensive to keep building, but there must have been a load on the Axius station.

And what about the people? When Seether and Tolywn were gone, did some still believe in the Black Lance way of life? Or did it break up immediatly after that?

Some of the Black Lance people must of tried to repent, as you can see the one guy in Tolywns trial in the BL uniform saying it was his fault or something. But it seems like those people were pretty crazy and they'd still go on as long as possible.
 
Was Chris Roberts a reformed Black Lancer at the end of WCIV? It's been so long since I played.

Sorry I didn't answer your question, but I don't know. :)
 
Originally posted by Dralthi5
Was Chris Roberts a reformed Black Lancer at the end of WCIV? It's been so long since I played.
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Yes he was in the trial movie he accusses Tolwin
i think that at least they were disbanded and the ships embarged.

[Edited by Ghost on 04-19-2001 at 22:40]
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The ideal scenario would be that huge superbase in Axius flew off somewhere further away from Confederation space, with that hord of Dragons on board. And they are simply living out their lives somewhere in deep space. It would be neat if the next WC game had some reference to the missing Dragons and that superbase.

RFB
 
The space nazis are effectively gone -- some pockets of Project forces still exist, but not enough to continue their plans...
 
The Black Lance were concieved as space-Nazis -- they *were* space-Nazis... we were *supposed* to learn a lesson by defeating them -- unfortunately, people seem to be too damn blinded by the fact that they had shiney new ships. Woooo! They fricking slaughtered civilians because of genetic defects, people, we should be damned glad they're gone.

In the "Admiral" ending they are still around -- because to get that ending you had to become like them.
 
In that scene of Tolwyn,WCIV, where he briefs the space nazis, there was one phrase that made me think of the Black Lance as Nazis, it was I think "The strong shall survive", the way he was pounding the podium. Almost as if Hitler himself was standing there! Comparing it to those old news reels of Hitler at the podium yelling at everyone.

RFB
 
I for one never doubted the evilness of teh Black Lance, and enjoyed taking them out, especially after regretfully fighting Confed forces (I still have never tried leech weapons) That was what was cool about WCIV (among other things) unless your a cold hearted bastard, you kinda felt what Blair must have. Then taking on Seether, well that was pure fun though it was over way to quick. Maniac was more of a challenge at the beginnig of the game.
 
I constantly refuse to believe that Tolwyn would do what he did in WC4. He was crazy, sure, brilliant, yeah, but that doesn't mean you decend into Nazi/Facisim.

I dunno, it doesnt strike me that Tolwyn was evil. Don't get me wrong, I completely dislike Nazism in every form but Tolwyn...is...Tolwyn. I see him more going senile and retiring than going to Nazism...

-J
 
At any point before WC 3 i wouldnt think Tolwyn was capable of it either, but afterwards who knows what he went through. It may have twisted his mind. Maybe he was beginning to go a little senile? I doubt that but whatever was going on in his head, he felt he was doing what was necessary to "save" humanity. Why it involved infecting people with a disease that killed them horribly when making them just die would have been much more humane (though space nazi would be the definition of inhumane) i wont ever know.
 
But what is this all about i mean if you really think of the wcIV story it makes no sense.
Why would the great war hero who saved billions of people turn into a bastard who leds the country into a civil war and starts killing innocent people. That's ridicolous.
If he wanted to save humanity he would have build up the black lance even stronger then it was but without producing genetic weapons. He would have even made genetic superior soldiers but he would never have started to kill humans!!
Who he had saved all his live!
 
Tolwyn had gone crazy -- he wasn't the man we knew during the war, whether we liked him or not. Think of Action Stations, though... Tolwyn had been fighting the war for his *entire* adult life; he was responsible for giving orders that affected billions of lives for much of this time. War was all he ever knew -- and when it was over, he saw the Confederation immediately descending back into something soft that was what he'd blamed for the war starting so badly.

Not to mention the personal aspects... he'd lost his entire family... and although he'd fought brilliantly for years and years, he *wasn't* the great hero of the Kilrathi War -- he was facing a court martial because of Behemoth.

He wasn't right -- but his character had reasons.
 
Tolwyn crazy that makes everything a bit too easy ha??
No the concept of wcIV is not well done! that's it!
The story makes no sense to me but who cares it's an awesome game and the story is still better than prophecy!
 
I agree with the Cad-Man. He was too respectable, too MacArthur to turn Hitler. Admittedly, I could see where he could be a lil bit of a hard-ass but being involved in the war as he was, achiving the rank of Space Marshall...he didn't have to do what he did! He was ethical, and WC4 turned him into some obvious, almost-comic booky villian.
Look how the mighty have fallen!-garbage. A more than tired cliche.

WC4, though cinematicly, and many other ways is the best WC game, WC3 remains my fav. It's got a dark-side of the war feel to it, very much like WC2, but the fact that flesh and blood actors are on screen carries more weight...

And then theres just Flint. ;) I'm still not sure: Flint or Sosa. Discuss!

I didn't mind Rachel when she was in her officer's uniform and not in her grungy work civies, either. ;)

-J
 
Borrowed from Britannica.com :)

When the Korean War began in 1950, MacArthur was soon selected to command United Nations forces there. After stemming the North Korean advance near Pusan, he carried out a daring landing at Inch'on in September and advanced into North Korea in October as the North Korean Army rapidly disintegrated. In November, however, massive Chinese forces attacked MacArthur's divided army above the 38th parallel and forced it to retreat to below Seoul. Two months later MacArthur's troops returned to the offensive, driving into North Korea again. On April 11, 1951, President Harry S. Truman relieved MacArthur of his commands because of the general's insubordination and unwillingness to conduct a limited war. Returning to the United States for the first time since before World War II, MacArthur at first received widespread popular support; the excitement waned after a publicized Senate investigation of his dismissal.

In personality MacArthur was enigmatic and contradictory. To many he seemed imperious, aloof, egotistical, and pretentious. To others, especially his headquarters staff, he appeared warm, courageous, unostentatious, and even humble. Most authorities agree that he possessed superior intelligence, rare command ability, and zealous dedication to duty, honour, and country.
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Sounds like Tolwyn to me. The novels gave you the side that MacArthur's staff saw, the games were the imperious, egotistical, etc. I agree with LOAF that Tolwyn had slipped into insanity. I think the Battle of Terra was the turning point though. A lot of those that might have kept him in check were killed. The Behemoth only compounded the issue.



[Edited by Shane on 04-20-2001 at 09:59]
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
The Black Lance were concieved as space-Nazis -- they *were* space-Nazis... we were *supposed* to learn a lesson by defeating them -- unfortunately, people seem to be too damn blinded by the fact that they had shiney new ships. Woooo! They fricking slaughtered civilians because of genetic defects, people, we should be damned glad they're gone.
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Well, of course it's good that they're not around any more for the people. But they were an intresting faction. I liked everything about them (except of course for the slaughtering of civies).

It wasn't just the "shiney new ships". Beyond the material things (like their damned cool uniforms). The fact that they could pull off something like that was amazing. I really liked how to novel showed the members all looking alike. The whole concept of an evil power really inrests me in a way. Like the Nazi's, I don't LIKE the Nazi's, but they do intrest me. The fact that a large group of people can be THAT evil is astounding.

On a side note, until what you just said, the ending I got the first time playing WC4 was the "Admiral" ending. I didn't even realize it was a bad ending....
 
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