We are your superiors

Are the Black Lance better fighters than "normal" humans?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 28.6%
  • No

    Votes: 20 71.4%

  • Total voters
    28

Raptor

Spaceman
Something I was thinking about. Are the Black Lance better fighters than "normal" humans? There's certainly no doubt that they themselves think that they are. Their comm messages are packed with themes like "Admit it, you are the weaker" or Die, Inferior!". There is also no doubt that Project members such as Tolwyn believe they've created a fighting elite. OTH, their combat record is pretty darn unimpressive. They had the Vesuvius (which was light years ahead of anything the Border Worlders had), they had the Dragons (ditto), they had frontline Confed fighters, they had all the training Confed could offer. They had had the advantage of carrying out their own plan and had the initiative (which is to say, they were able to engineer the conflict, rather having to react to it as the Border Worlders were doing) and had Confed's fleet to run interference for them. All that, and they still lost. I mean, you would at least expect the "Master Race" to win in a situation like that, wouldn't you?

Best, Raptor
 
hello, it is a GAME, you dont want Uber Soldats to walk over you in a GAME, it wouldnt be fun, you'd get pissed and throw the whole thing in the trash.
 
Originally posted by Raptor
Something I was thinking about. Are the Black Lance better fighters than "normal" humans? There's certainly no doubt that they themselves think that they are. Their comm messages are packed with themes like "Admit it, you are the weaker" or Die, Inferior!". There is also no doubt that Project members such as Tolwyn believe they've created a fighting elite. OTH, their combat record is pretty darn unimpressive. They had the Vesuvius (which was light years ahead of anything the Border Worlders had), they had the Dragons (ditto), they had frontline Confed fighters, they had all the training Confed could offer. They had had the advantage of carrying out their own plan and had the initiative (which is to say, they were able to engineer the conflict, rather having to react to it as the Border Worlders were doing) and had Confed's fleet to run interference for them. All that, and they still lost. I mean, you would at least expect the "Master Race" to win in a situation like that, wouldn't you?

Best, Raptor


You'd expect it - but with all the above, people tend to get overconfident and muck things up.
 
Well Cause I dont want to say "Its just a Game" ,lets see...

I think that they dont really believe that they are Superior from the Regular Confed Army but maybe from......the Border Worlds....

When you defect from Confed,your Confed opponents taunt you all the time saying "you Border Worlder low-life" etc. They are normal Confed and nothing to do with Black Lance (in the first battles).

Also Paulsen said to Blair "The Border Worlders? Barbarians most of them......"

I think that Confed and Black Lance think that they are superiors to the low-life BorderWorlders.

Even Blair when he was aboarded in the BWSIntrepid was surprised cause maybe he was expecting something else......

GO GO GO BorderWorlds (I really like them)

:p
 
Originally posted by dacis2
hello, it is a GAME, you dont want Uber Soldats to walk over you in a GAME, it wouldnt be fun, you'd get pissed and throw the whole thing in the trash.


You want that if you play Return to Castle Wolfenstein
 
Originally posted by Raptor
All that, and they still lost. I mean, you would at least expect the "Master Race" to win in a situation like that, wouldn't you?

Erm, Wing Commander IV is a pulpy sci fi adventure story, not a careful analysis of future military combat... you can't really expect the bad guys to win simply because they have some advantage. Pretty much every good movie/book/game. ever would be really really disappointing if that were the case.
 
LOAF,they have Dragons OK.But their pilots maybe inexpirienced,or are they Confed`s Elites? I reallly dont know...

Also Except from Seether (the bastard..:mad: ) all the other pilots had nothing to do with the GE program so they are natural pilots.

Against the expirienced pilots of BW had no chance..... :)

;)
 
Originally posted by dacis2
hello, it is a GAME, you dont want Uber Soldats to walk over you in a GAME, it wouldnt be fun, you'd get pissed and throw the whole thing in the trash.

Even if it's a game, I would want it to reflect the storyline to some extent. The Black Lance were no tougher than the baseline Confed/Border Worlds pilots as opponents, which makes you think their reputation is kind of over-blown. Besides, even in the novel, they ended up getting trashed.

Best, Raptor
 
First of all, the Black Lance pilots were mostly not genetically enhanced to my knowledge. They however did have the proper genetics (the top 10 percent).

Some of them were though. Seether was. The ones in the research project were.

Also, if they were too hard you'd probably get all pissed and quit.

The game has to be winnable, and Blair is a VERY good pilot.

-Concordia
 
Originally posted by Raptor
Even if it's a game, I would want it to reflect the storyline to some extent. The Black Lance were no tougher than the baseline Confed/Border Worlds pilots as opponents, which makes you think their reputation is kind of over-blown. Besides, even in the novel, they ended up getting trashed.

That's more a criticism of the way games are designed than it is a problem with WCIV specifically -- having "advanced" AI's is problematic...

IMO, Wing IV gets credit for *trying*... it just didn't jive with the way people played the game. Most previous games reflected higher skilled enemies by simply giving them unfair amounts of shields/armor/damage-done...
 
I don't have a problem with the gameplay in WC4. (In fact, it was one of the more enjoyable games in my book.) What I'm saying is that the supposed superiority of the Black Lance isn't really evident from their combat record, in either the game or the novel. Hence, I'm very dubiuous about the claim that the Black Lance are somehow superior fighters to the rest of humanity.

Concordia: there's a differance between the ten percent of the population left alive by the the gen-select device (who're meant to have an "acceptable" genotype, at least according to Tolwyn's standards) and the Black Lancers. In his speech in the Novel, he talks about the use of bio-convergence in creating them, and says "Each of you is stronger, faster, and better than the best comman man has to offer." As I said before, there's no doubt that the project members think they're better, but actual evidence of their superiority is rather lacking. It's all very well to say that they were portrayed as being less capable than they actually were for gameplay puprposes, but to do that, we would have to start by accepting the premise that they *were* superior. A far more feasible explanation (as it doesn't involve dragging in out of universe explanations) the Black Lance are a group who can talk the talk about their "superiority", but aren't able to back it up with results.

Best, Raptor
 
I just don't understand the nature of your complaint at all, then. Why would we *need* to randomly decide, years later, that the project wasn't *really* a threat and it was all just a bad dream anyway?

The novel makes clear that they are, indeed, both excellent fighter pilots and ground troops in the few engagements that they actually take part in -- a match for Blair and Maniac.

Are we going to start complaining about the Kilrathi because they don't *actually* mount our bones in their hall? Maybe they don't even *have* a hall...
 
I'm not complaining about anything, and I'm not saying the Project wasn't a threat. (Much the opposite, seeing as they were prepared to kill the billions upon billions who didn't meet their "standards", and had the weapon to do it with.) What I'm saying is that there isn't much to support their claims of being superior to "normal" humans.

PS: As for discussing it years after the fact, well, until a new WC game comes out, there's isn't much else to do, is there? :D

Best, Raptor
 
As I said before , even the best geneticaly enchanced warrior/pilot cannot win a veteran and expirienced warrior even if the second has`nt the same talent or skills.Thats my opinion anyway and I believe its true.Thats why the Black Lance defeated.Most of their pilots were simulated fighter pilots not actually combat pilots.



P.S. Thats right Raptor we have to talk about older Wc games even after all these years.
 
What I'm saying is that there isn't much to support their claims of being superior to "normal" humans.

I think there is, though... these completely inexperienced pilots are just as good as Maniac and Blair (according to the novel)... and the Black Lance Marines were supposed to be excellent fighters, too (from the Princeton part).
 
Damn Seether is pretty difficult in Nightmare and a big pain in the ass!!! Ive got him though..:D

The only mission in Wc I couldnt finish in nightmare is Wc3`s final mission,3rd part..(and if Hobbes is Alive) Damn Thrakkath and Hobbes together are incredible!!


OK sorry Im off-topic again..:p
 
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