Vesuvius and Star Destroyer Size?

You have to watch the Holiday Special. Its something of a rite of passage - the cartoon is pretty nifty too for an early Nelvana work.

Then again, I also own that damned Star Wars Christmas album so maybe I'm just nuts.
 
That's really cool. It would be killer to see at least some form of concept art of some of the stuff not included in the movie. Does anybody have any access to any movie related art other than what's already uploaded to the CIC movie section?
 
Bandit LOAF said:
The shooting script for the Wing Commander movie has three Kilrathi fighters rather than one - Dralthi, Salthi and Krant. The 3D work for the film ended up being a lot more expensive and time-consuming than anyone thought. The Salthi and Krant were 'cut' from the movie at some point - it's not known whether or not any work was actually done on them. At the time the Confederation Handbook went to press, though, it was still possible that they'd be included in the movie - so it has specifications and histories for both fighters.

(Another ship, the Fralthi-class, also wasn't done when the Handbook had to be finished - it appears as an untextured 'intel' model in the book.)

Neat! Were there any other confed fighters planned other than the Rapier and Broadsword?
 
Nope! The shooting script mentions the Dralthi, Salthi, Krant, Rapier, Broadsword, Diligent, Tiger's Claw, Concordia, Ralari, Fralthi, Snakeir and Sivar.

I remember those well because Peter Telep sent me a list of the ships and characters mentioned in the script when he was looking for background information for the book. The fact that the script just says "Concordia" and "Rapier" is why the movie novel describes the WC2 Concordia and the WC1 Rapier.

... an earlier draft (first, I think) has Sabres, though.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
Actually, I would say the Star Wars Holiday Special fits very well into the Star Wars continuity...

... it's just very, very bad.

As I said, it would do wonders for WC continuity. Sometimes, we feel like saying that something that's very bad is not part of WC in order to protect what is good. Or what people think it's good or bad, at any rate.
 
Well personally I have no problem with the 'bad' fitting into the universe, I have a problem with the 'impossible' fitting into the universe. It wasn't the bad acting, the different ship designs, or some mixed up character histories which I had problems with from the Wing Commander movie, it was the massive list of things which simply couldn't work based on already existing history/knowledge of Wing Commander, or stuff which is downright conradictory within itself. It is this inability to fit which is why I personally count the Wing Commander movie as a stand alone product outside of the WC universe.

As for Star Wars, while I agree with the problems of a lot of star wars EU stuff a few I generally have to consider as part of the story because they were officially licensed, requested, and conceptually designed by George Lucas himself to continue the stories. Timothy Zahn stuff is what I am talking about, Lucas approached him to make the original Thrawn trilogy, telling him exactly what he wanted and making some deals for how it would work. A lot of the others Lucas just said "Fit it in and don't contradict this" but the 5 original Zahn books he had a much larger stake in, wanting them as continuations of the books during a slow point when he couldn't make any more movies. As such it seems that it we can consider the horridly done Episode 1 as true Star Wars because of Lucas's involvement, or the holiday special, the Zahn books should also be considered as part of the universe.
 
Rictheron said:
the massive list of things which simply couldn't work based on already existing history/knowledge of Wing Commander

As much as I should probably succumb to the Massive List of Things Unnamed, I think I will challenge you (and others!) to list some of these things and see what can or cannot be resolved.

In fact I'm sure this was done many times already, but it always provides for interesting conversation!


Rictheron said:
As such it seems that it we can consider the horridly done Episode 1 as true Star Wars because of Lucas's involvement, or the holiday special, the Zahn books should also be considered as part of the universe.

Let us recognize that "Lucas's involvement" in Episode 1 and the Holiday Special involved writing the scripts (or among the writers for the Holiday Special), and being the executive producer and director for Episode 1. This is quite a bit different than setting restrictions for a novel.
 
Rictheron said:
As such it seems that it we can consider the horridly done Episode 1 as true Star Wars because of Lucas's involvement, or the holiday special, the Zahn books should also be considered as part of the universe.

The point of stuff being canon is to prevent people from merely "picking and chosing" from the selection of offically licensed material. Lucasfilm and its sister companies made the rather stupid mistake of giving multiple levels of canon as opposed to making things clean-cut black and white.

The fact that you do not like Episode 1 lends absolutely nothing to the point you're trying to make. The fact is that it is canon, while anything by Zahn never will be.
 
Rictheron said:
It is this inability to fit which is why I personally count the Wing Commander movie as a stand alone product outside of the WC universe.

I guarantee anything you can come up with has already been fully explained a dozen (or dozens) of times before. You can exclude the movie just like anyone else is welcome to personally ignore odd numbered games or expansions released in July, but it doesn't change too much for us here.
 
And when it comes right down to it - The only thing that throws the WCM off is the visual style. And to be quite frank - It's nothing that hasn't been done in WC games many times. Look at the difference between WC1/2 and WCP - it doesn't even look like the same universe. At the end of the day it's the story that matters - and there's really nothing in the WCM that doesn't mesh with the games and novels. There may be some stuff that falls under the "Well, we haven't heard of that before" but that's no reason to deep-six the whole thing. Anyhow, these guys ain't joking - I've seen people go round on this many, many times. I've been on both sides, and I can tell you - there's far more that makes sense than that doesn't.
 
At the end of the day it dont really matter. We love our Wing Commander and we love our Star Wars. Either way I would love to see a good space fight between the two most interesting ships ever created.

Otherwise we would be arguing which is better...Trek or Wars
 
Hi everybody, I'm baack!

Okay, just to answer the ISD slagging a planet in 3 minutes thing, its called Base Delta Zero, its in one of the books, and it matches up with the new canon firepower found in the Attack of the Clones Incredible Cross Sections (which is declared canon) that the Medium Turbolasers on the Acclamators are rated at 200 Gigatons. This, of course, leads to ISDs slinging around around 100 TT of firepower at a planet if it has to.

Since a planet is mostly iron, I use Mike Wong's Asteroid Calculator to determine the energy needed to overcome Alderaan's Gravitational Binding Energy, which is around 1.090E+11teratons.

So the Death Star Superlaser is a helluvalot more powerful than your average ISD.

Anyway, the Death Star is a terror weapon. It blows up the planet, fast. That's it.

If you want more info, tell me, I'll ask the guys over at Spacebattles, who, after long years of debating this topic, have amassed large stores of information.

Over and out.
 
dacis2 said:
Attack of the Clones Incredible Cross Sections (which is declared canon)

Theres a big difference between something thats canon and an offically licensed product.
 
dacis2 said:
If you want more info, tell me, I'll ask the guys over at Spacebattles, who, after long years of debating this topic, have amassed large stores of information.
Over and out.

That is just sad.
 
Hehehe, you missed the part of the thread where we were making fun of Spacebattles for doing exactly what you just posted.

That part was all of the thread.
 
Who ever said I wanted to argue whether or not either WCM or the Zahn books should be considered cannon? I just provided some stats as asked for in the original thread post and explained why I never bothered with the WCM Rapier. I have my reasons for liking or disliking things, for taking some things as meaningful and others as not, I have no intention of trying to change anyones mind, nor was I ever trying to. Some people are WAY too ready to defend a point which in the long run doesn't really mean a thing. Open minds, people, read back, I never tried to tell anyone to believe anything. I love Wing Commander, have since it first came out. Same with Star Wars. Same with hundreds of other things. So please. Ease up already.
 
Some people are WAY too ready to defend a point which in the long run doesn't really mean a thing.

I don't think you can ever be too ready to talk about Wing Commander at a Wing Commander message board.

(On the other hand, I don't really want to argue about movie continuity today, either.)
 
LeHah said:
Theres a big difference between something thats canon and an offically licensed product.


its "C" level canon. Sure, it isn't the Holy Writ, but its something unless you want to count turbolasers speeds in meters per second, and weapon ranges equal to the gun range of today's planes.
 
dacis2 said:
its "C" level canon. Sure, it isn't the Holy Writ, but its something unless you want to count turbolasers speeds in meters per second, and weapon ranges equal to the gun range of today's planes.

I think you're completely failing at understanding what Star Wars is about if you're worried about technical classifications and weapons values of it's starships.
 
I'm not a "mega" Star Wars fan but I based on what I've seen, George Lucas himself has never assigned power ratings, speed classifications etc to the units and weapons in his universe. Sure there's been "canon" books out there contributed by many authors that bear his seal of approval but the point is, George Lucas created a neat little universe...he didn't put a whole lot of thought into what makes what do what...that was never the goal. He put the thing together in a movie and expected the audience to just enjoy it for what it is. There's no audible explosions and laser blasts in space, there'd be no roaring fighters swerving in and out like aerial dogfights but it's just fun stuff. People get way too overhyped in the technical classifications of a made up universe at times.
 
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