To ALL members here just want to say..

A

AKUMA1

Spaceman
Hi everyone!!

Just Recentley joined this forum was on the lookout for any Wing Commander communties out on the web, came across this one which I found kool, and recentley I have been looking into things ALL Wing commander, interest in it got re-ignited by the recent article of the game in IGN, which I'm sure many of u have seen...I played the 1st on the Commodore CD32, (came with the console) missed out on 2,3 brought number 4 when it was released thought it was awesome, and then subsequently missed prophecy, so now I am catchin up on it all (currently watching all the clips available for the games..)

So who here thinks there is a REAL possibilty that there will be a new Wing Commander sometime soon...or do u think that after the debacle that was Wing Commander Arena EA won't touch the franchise anytime soon...?:confused:
 
AKUMA1 said:
So who here thinks there is a REAL possibilty that there will be a new Wing Commander sometime soon...or do u think that after the debacle that was Wing Commander Arena EA won't touch the franchise anytime soon...?:confused:
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First off, Hello.

Second, I'm not really sure I see Arena as a debacle. It's a fun game in its own right. It never intended to be a "new WC" in the sense of following the main games instead it brought WC into a different format.

It also provided the best piece of WC canon to come along in years with Star*Soldier. Unfortunately, many don't even know the manual exists, however once they see it it's hard not to be impressed by the amount of love and hard work the people at Gaia put into Arena.
 
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Well it was a bit of debacle to quote from a review: The lackluster tutorial, clumsy interface, and dearth of options ensure players will be wandering aimlessly around the furthest reaches of space. The ''proving grounds'' where you hone your skills doesn't provide any suggestions what to do, where to go, or how to pilot your ship, HUD is never explained, what each item does isn't detailed ..When joining a multiplayer game online, Wing Commander Arena doesn't feel the need to let you in on the type of game you've joined. You can see it if you pause the action, and then all first-timers have to do is back out of the game and flip through a dozen pages of "How-To" to figure out what is required of them. Any of the normal settings you would like to change in a multiplayer game you can't do...time limit, number of bots, difficulty of bots, items, weapons… All the things you would normally expect to be to change.. it' doesn't do justice to the licence....So if all that doesn't amount to a debacle of a game, then what does?
 
AKUMA1 said:
Well it was a bit of debacle to quote from a review: The lackluster tutorial, clumsy interface, and dearth of options ensure players will be wandering aimlessly around the furthest reaches of space. The ''proving grounds'' where you hone your skills doesn't provide any suggestions what to do, where to go, or how to pilot your ship, HUD is never explained, what each item does isn't detailed ..When joining a multiplayer game online, Wing Commander Arena doesn't feel the need to let you in on the type of game you've joined. You can see it if you pause the action, and then all first-timers have to do is back out of the game and flip through a dozen pages of "How-To" to figure out what is required of them. Any of the normal settings you would like to change in a multiplayer game you can't do...time limit, number of bots, difficulty of bots, items, weapons… All the things you would normally expect to be to change.. it' doesn't do justice to the licence....So if all that doesn't amount to a debacle of a game, then what does?
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I've always found most of those reviewers to be biased people who give everything that isn't a sports game, 1st person shooter, or on par with pop culture, a bad review.
 
AKUMA1 said:
Well it was a bit of debacle to quote from a review: The lackluster tutorial, clumsy interface, and dearth of options ensure players will be wandering aimlessly around the furthest reaches of space. The ''proving grounds'' where you hone your skills doesn't provide any suggestions what to do, where to go, or how to pilot your ship, HUD is never explained, what each item does isn't detailed
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Ugh game reviews...the scum of the internet.

..When joining a multiplayer game online, Wing Commander Arena doesn't feel the need to let you in on the type of game you've joined. You can see it if you pause the action, and then all first-timers have to do is back out of the game and flip through a dozen pages of "How-To" to figure out what is required of them.
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Incorrect, when you search for games the game type is clearly listed. Not sure how you can miss this.

Any of the normal settings you would like to change in a multiplayer game you can't do...time limit, number of bots, difficulty of bots, items, weapons… All the things you would normally expect to be to change.. it' doesn't do justice to the licence....So if all that doesn't amount to a debacle of a game, then what does?
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I think you're expecting it to be more than it ever intended. It's supposed to be a simple fun arcade shooter. Normally expect to change? What other game offers the same level of action and lets you micromanage the environment?

I can also tell by your response that you still have not looked at Star*Soldier. Take a look at that (which actually explains all the things you are complaining about) and then tell me it doesn't do the license justice.

It's a manual on the caliber of ClawMarks or Voices of War, two of the finest WC manuals ever produced.
 
I hate being devils advocate but I completely agree that there should have been a better tutorial in there somewhere. Where I differ is that I don't think it's a major issue of contention for which the reviewers should be deducting significantly from it's final score.

I think most reviewers were overly harsh as that is a very minor consideration and most were too lazy to figure anything out on their own and actually rate the game on it's merits. I think 90 percent of the reviews gave it a bad score simply because they didn't like that the game wasn't a full scale game on par with Wing Commander Prophecy. What it was was a simple muliplayer game set in the WC universe.

The game works great for first timers though in that you have simply fly around with the left stick and shoot the guns and manage to blow stuff up. But the refining of tactics and such takes a bit of time to figure out how to best use objects and missiles and the manoevers. Even so, things like the fact that afterburning (I think it's that...?) uses up your fuel needed to perform the special manoevers. If you don't notice that those reserves need recharged then the controls feel unresponsive and slugish since it doesn't seem to want to do what you tell it, or it seems to do it randomly, which isn't the case at all.

The other minor flaw that get's accentuated when no one is around to play with is that team speak is turned on in team matches before an event starts. That means you can't tell the other team what's going on unless you message them. So this is a pain if you need to wait around for players to join. Ditto the not being able to jump right back in a new game with the same group you just played with. I'm curious to see if the party features in the new XBL experience stuff they released in the fall rectifies this to some degree.
 
Fair enough the game may have it's share of fans but the FACT is it cannot be claimed to be THE most downloaded or THE best WC game since the last one, I couldn't see it topping the XBLA charts could you? Plus I am not the only one who thought it was bad.. all it is, is Wing Commander by name, that's it...if I had to choose between this game or a BRAND NEW installment in the Saga I know which one I would go for without a doubt! Don't know if EA will ever do it though...
 
AKUMA1 said:
I couldn't see it topping the XBLA charts could you?
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You also weren't around when dozens of fans got up at 4 in the morning to download it the second it was released.

AKUMA1 said:
Plus I am not the only one who thought it was bad
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We're all well aware stupid is an attribute not contained to just one person.
 
AKUMA1 said:
Fair enough the game may have it's share of fans but the FACT is it cannot be claimed to be THE most downloaded or THE best WC game since the last one, I couldn't see it topping the XBLA charts could you? Plus I am not the only one who thought it was bad.. all it is, is Wing Commander by name, that's it...if I had to choose between this game or a BRAND NEW installment in the Saga I know which one I would go for without a doubt! Don't know if EA will ever do it though...
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No one *ever* suggested that Arena was meant to be a replacement for new entries in the series. We were never asked to choose between Arena and some theoretical new entry in the series either, though more support for Arena certainly wouldn't have hurt. I can also guarantee that your negativity is entirely misplaced.

Casually dismissing a game as "Wing Commander in name only" belies the fact that they probably never ever gave it more than a cursory glance. Once a person gets over the perspective, the combat is very much like every other WC game including in the way shields recharge and the way armor works. There were so many reviews early on that simply reviewed it like it was some full triple A title rather than what it is. and railed against the core gameplay because it wasn't what their preconceived ideas wanted. It was easy to just pick on Arena unfoundedly and a lot of people just dismissed it without giving it a real shot. I can say first hand that a lot of care went in to making the gameplay and the settings more like Wing Commander than we righfully could have expected them to.

That' brings me to the other single greatest flaw.. The demo picked the worst modes for showing off what the game was about. Meteor was more a bonus mode than anything that should never have been in the demo though, and it was a mistake not to let people try out the multiplayer in the demo since that is the true core of what Arena is about, not that it matters any more. The single player modes are really just practice modes for the multiplayer. If a person has never played Arena in an 8 to 16 player match they really have no idea what Arena is about. Do you have to like it? No. does that change anything? No.

Now, that's not to say there aren't issues that should have been addressed... There were no issues with matchmaking, but there should have been a way to keep a group together after a match. There should have been a tutorial. There should have been a better demo, and the music should have looped more cleanly. Team speak should have been off while waiting for matches to start. I really can't think of anything else I would deduct points for. It does everything else it intended to really really well.
 
I agree with AD, Arena probably got the bad reviews because they expected too much from it, it's under 50 MB and it provides lots of fun and never intended to do more.

Also "Wing Commander in name" is really not true. It plays differently but it is clearly set in the WC universe with great background informations and anyone who has read Star*Soldier will immediately realize that real WC fans were at work here.

Personally, if there are two WC-titled games, one of it adds to the background in a very fitting way but plays a bit odd, the other is a normal space sim simulator but adds not much to the universe or does not really fit, then I consider rather the second one to be "WC only in name".

Arena certainly deserved better reviews and attention. It's not perferct but it's far from bad.

Edit: But it's nice to see that your interest reignited AKUMA1, so welcome and be sure, hope dies last here. :)
 
Well end of the day Arena wasn't as good as it could have been..othere may disagree but anyway moving away from that game, as I said the interest has come back in the game since reading that article been enjoying watchin the footage of Wing Commander 2, and the Special Ops packs, so I am just wondering with the last game in the series : Prophecy is it worth getting? Is it possible to play it on Windows XP? Does anyone here think it's the best out of the lot?
 
Wing Commander: Prophecy (WC:p)is a really good game. If you can find the WC:p "gold," then I highly recommend getting that. In the original WC games, they released some "Special Ops" packages which expanded on the story and tied up some loose ends. WC:p Gold includes "Wing Commander Secret Ops" (WCSO) so you can follow the story of the Nephillem (spell?) invasion, battle, and then subsequent battles. As to whether it's better than the others..well...it's just newer and different.

It was the first Wing Commander main story arc game where you aren't Blair (or his earlier unnamed "Bluehair" -> Blair self). The ships and missions are really neat, the characters can be a little annoying, but provide some good dramatic/comic relief at the right times.

If you want the "best" Wing Commander game, IMO, you should get WC4. The problem you'll face, being a newcomer, is that WC4 draws SOOOO heavily on the first three games. There are references that will whiz past you, but it's one of the best games in the series.

You should go get legit (don't ask, just go buy a legit copy, it's totally worth it) copies of the original WC1, WC2, and WC3 games, then search the forums here for message threads answering the "how do I play WC1 or 2 or 3???" questions.

You won't be disappointed, this is one of the finest game series in history.
 
Well I've been watchin the videos of the games mainly Wing Commander 2 past week or two, I played the 1st one on the CD32 back when the console launched, and so just been catchin up with it all, as I'm typin I've been watchin the missions in Special op2 for WC2, So eventually I'll start seein all that's happenin in 3, WC: 4 I brought again when it first came out played it, still got it though not sure if I ever completed it..~~~, so I was just mulling over the idea about Wing Commander Prophecy ...
 
You can legally download Secret Ops now from the CIC . You can find the front page story here. It is the game that follows WCP but uses the same engine. It will give you an idea of how WCP plays.

WCP/SO runs fine under XP, and over the years several wingnuts have made enhancements to the game.

I don't personally don't think WCP is the best game of the lot, but it is certainly a game you should own if you enjoy WC.

I also recommend looking at some of the fan mods like Saga and Standoff. Saga uses the Freespace Engine, while Standoff is a mod of the WCP/SO Vision Engine. Both are free to download from the CIC.
 
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Cheers for that Dundradel ! Currently watchin Special Op2 for WC2, mission 5, certaintly engrossing stuff generally speaking,
I looked into it briefly about the fan mods like Saga, though have not seen Standoff, I was just generally thinkin should I get Prophecy or just make do with the videos!....
 
I highly recommend you d/l Secret Ops and then give Standoff and Saga a try. Standoff is set during the False Armistice/Battle of Terra from the novel Fleet Action. Here is the Standoff Site

Saga takes place roughly at the same time as WC3 in 2669 in the last months of the war. Here is the Saga Site

If you are enjoying the CIC's hosted videos make sure to check out the Community Replay I've been running for...wow...over a year now Here's the latest frontpage story Fans have been doing write ups of the missions as we play week by week.

There are so many resources, mods, documents, etc on the CIC you could lose yourself for months and still not see it all. Have fun.
 
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So what is Community replay all about? Is it user generated missions that you guys are goin through, or actual missions from the game? Also what are the write ups about? Are they evaluations of the missions played week by week? I didn't know there were Hosted video's on CIC...l.o.l I've been watchin the footage from youtube!!..where if I am correct there is a member from here that has posted most of the footage up (well from wc2 anyway..) I'll check that section out though on CIC with regards to the videos.... : )
 
The Replay is a bunch of fans replaying the games in order. We've already gone through WC1-WCP and are a week away from finishing Secret Ops.

The write ups are about the missions, the story line, really anything the pilots want to write about.

I'm guessing you are watching DaveO's youtube videos from the replay. He has all the way up to SO, just look through the replay threads each week from the front page story.

The CIC vid section is off the front page on the right hand side it's called Holovids AKA CIC Yellow.
 
So looks like there might be a bit of a backlog I'll have to go through for each those games!!...still I'll check it out, thanks for letting me know where the vids are, once I've been through all the missions from Special Op2 on WC2, soon I'll check out Wing Comm3 never seen hardly any of it before..so that'll be interesting to watch as well..
 
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