vindicator said:
...Mostly, I don't want a gay bishop, specificly because that just draws out more religous gay hate psychos.
...Everybody is worried how it will affect the church, how about how it affects me or my gay friends or my boyfreind? what if this causes gay hate crimes to happen.
...As hard a life as I've lived you think I choose to be gay with all the negitive things that brings no thanks people. I think people that claim it's choice ought to see how "easy" life it is before they make judgements of what people choose
...but you'll say Rance it's wrong, well maybe but if it's so wrong why didn't god give me feelings for women most of the people that claim they've changed get married and usually have sex like once every six months doesn't seem to me they enjoy their new life very much.
But Rance who cares if you like it, it's god's commandment
I don't think god put us here on this earth to praise and worship him and live terrible sad lives unhappy.
I believe he wants us to worship him while being happy and reaching out to others. I am gay, I have never felt the "guilt of sin as I have for every other sin I have ever commited there is always guilt that goes with it, why not for this?
-- You're using an oxymoron, there, guy, at least in the case of Christians: It is not possible for a
true Christian to be a gay hate psycho. Those that call themselves Christians and spout such rhetoric and/or actions are merely exposing the depth of their own hypocrisy. It is a blot on the name of Christ that anyone would be that way and have the balls to call themselves "Christian". They're nothing more than thugs who THINK they've found religion (1 John 3:10 & 14, 1 John 4:8 & 20)
-- Gay hate crimes - like all other crimes - will always "happen". I sympathize with your fear, but as I pointed out above, you've nothing to be terrified about from us Christians. Unfortunately, though, there will always be thugs who stupidly find "justification" for their actions, even if they are so brazen and idiotic as to claim the Christian faith as their reason to do so. Like I said, by doing so, they merely point out what hypocrites they are. Will we (Christians) fight against things like gay bishops and legalizing gay marriage? Sure, but (at the risk of popping your bubble) that ain't a hate crime, sorry to tell you...
-- No one can credibly argue that being gay is an easy life, but that really ain't the point...Neither is it a refutation of the notion of choice. Alcoholics, people with other addictons, those dedicated to living a life of crime, them what go through life lying to people or using others for their own gain, etc.: Most of these folks end up finding, when all is said and done, that the life they lived was not an "easy" one. Nonetheless, in the final analysis, all of them CHOSE to do what they did. That there were contributing factors to their taking this path is no doubt, and sometimes heart-wrenchingly so. Nonetheless, in the end they were all responsible for the choices they made that resulted in that life.
-- What's this - you're admitting that it "may" be wrong?... Interesting. Anyway, frequency of sex got nothing to do with nothing, and I'd like to know where you got that information... What may seem to be the case to you is far from as obvious as you think it is. Frequency of sex varies greatly from couple to couple. Before the stuff hit the fan & my wife walked out, our 8.5 yrs of marriage saw a frequency ranging from 3x/day to 1x/1-2 mos. It really varied widely with how the realtionship was doing and a host of other factors, such as my wife's medical conditions. Doesn't mean we weren't each happy in the marriage (heck, there's times when having sex helped to heal the marital strife of the moment), or in our own individual sexuality/orientation.
-- You're missing the point. If you truly know Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, you will worship Him "In spirit and in truth" (John 4:23-24). Once you get to that point, obeying His commands will be a joy to your soul, and He will give you the ability to obey Him. That's not to say life's a bowl of cherries and it'll always be easy, but He gives you the strength and resources to do so. Believe me, if this were not the case, I know for a fact that I would be either in prison, on Skid row, in an insane asylum, or else 6 feet under by now.
-- Um, no; you got it all bass-ackwards. For one, you don't need to be happy TO worship Him, rather, worshipping Him (for the true believer, anyway) GIVES you joy, and enable you to reach out to others more effectively/powerfully. Secondly, you specifically said earlier that hearing the putdowns of others for your gayness caused you to feel like you were less worthy than other people; like you deserved to die, etc.. Sounds pretty much like guilt to me (not that you ARE less worthy, etc., mind you, but that you felt bad about *being* gay; that you were "guilty" of gay-ness). If that ain't guilt, then please explain...
Dammerung said:
...I should first note, that you, a lousy mortal, in my opinion has no idea whether or not a "god" (Or "Goddess", as Christianity is very male-centered, I'm an Agnostic incase you couldn't tell), and By Predjudice I didn't mean having a distaste for disorder.
...I meant hating a certain ethnicity or minority(Gays, for example).
...A Being THAT ADVANCED would most likely not stoop down low to hate, or even dislike. On the Issue of Worshipping other gods...that they'd acknowledge that you are in fact as stupid mortal who doesn't know better
...From what I've read about Christianity, it's based around malevolence(Pardon the Spelling), violence, adultry, and mass-murder than "God's Love". And I should note...that the God that is worshipped in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism(Again, pardon the spelling) is the same deity
-- Perhaps you could translate your first passage above, as you seemed to combine one sentence with another different one, and I can't make out what you meant. Likewise the second half of the 3rd one I quoted above...
-- Nope. For one, as I said elsewhere, neither I nor any other
true Christian "hates" gays, blacks, or whoever. God does not, therefore we are not to do so either. However, He does hate SIN, and that's what we are to hate, as His followers - but not at the expense of hating the sinNER.
-- Are you a parent?... I am/have been. As a father I can tell you that, because I love my kids, there are certain things I hate; things that I hope my kids never ever get mixed up in: Pedophilia, drugs, gambling, prostitution, murder, etc. The parent is clearly a more advanced being (at least for the duration of childhood) than their kids. Because I know better, I hate these things for the sake of the welfare and well-being of my kids. It's the same with God. Unless of course you're saying that you imagine God (assuming for the moment that He exists) doesn't *also* hate the things I mentioned, and/or similar bad things (in which case, you are truly whacked...). Anyhoo, notice that I didn't say I hated prostitutes, junkies, gamblers, etc... They are humans like me, and sinners like me, deserving as much love & compassion as I can bring to the table. As such, your argument here (the half of it that I understand, anyway) is null & void.
-- Clearly you need to do some more reading, then, and by that I mean on your OWN, and less listening to Christian/religious bashers who spoonfeed you seriously flawed rhetoric. ...Speaking of which, the God worshipped by those 3 religions is most definitely NOT the same God, mainly in the case of Islam. Unfortunately for you, I'm not gonna get into that issue here, because it's been ehxaustively posted on in at least one recent thread here on the CZ that I can recall. I can't recall which thread it was, so if you wanna find out more, you'll have to do a CZ search. ...Or else, you could simply read through the Koran, then read the Bible (esp. the NT), and let us know what you find. I've read the Bible several times thru, and most of the Koran once, and I can tell you, they ain't the same.
life is so complicated
