The Behemoth in WCIII was a stupid idea

Yeah, only light is recoilless, supposedly.

Seriously, though, the end of WC3 is soooo similar to the end of the Death Star, it's the same run-trench-and-deliver-fatal-blow scenario as in Star Wars.
 
I don't know though. The Behemoth still had a bunch of Paktahns pummelling it until it blew up. It's not like it had this super sweet spot that made it die in one shot.
 
To one of the posters above that argues that Tolwyn is not a bad leader, I simply based my observations on the games, where Tolwyn seems more than a little disagreeable. BTW, are the books considered canon by Chris Roberts?

Have you guys considered what would have happened if the behemoth actually succeeded? Will the giant gun be turn into an orbital museum? It seems to me the weapon itself will see little use again, considering the amount of resources devoted to its production. In hind sight, the T-bomb did the job just as well at perhaps a faction of the cost.
 
I dunno. I would imagine if it survived the attack and Confed kept it around, Tolwyn would have tried to use it against the Border Worlds.
 
TigerDragon said:
To one of the posters above that argues that Tolwyn is not a bad leader, I simply based my observations on the games, where Tolwyn seems more than a little disagreeable. BTW, are the books considered canon by Chris Roberts?
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That's irrelevant. Electronic Arts owns the Wing Commander franchise and determines which products are official. That includes all the novels. The whole premise of Wing Commander 3 is based upon the events of End Run and Fleet Action.

Shipgate said:
I don't know though. The Behemoth still had a bunch of Paktahns pummelling it until it blew up. It's not like it had this super sweet spot that made it die in one shot.
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Yeah, but it had gaping holes in the hull, gaps in the shielding and other major flaws. The Paktahns weren't randomly shooting. They were surely going for the defenseless sections that Hobbes tipped them off about.
 
d3r3k said:
I dunno. I would imagine if it survived the attack and Confed kept it around, Tolwyn would have tried to use it against the Border Worlds.
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Or the Nephilim gate.
 
I dunno. I would imagine if it survived the attack and Confed kept it around, Tolwyn would have tried to use it against the Border Worlds.
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It's worth noting that the Behemoth apparently had the same requirement as the Temblor Bomb - it had to be used against tectonically unstable planets. The reason the Victory went to Ariel was to scout for a suitable target.

To one of the posters above that argues that Tolwyn is not a bad leader, I simply based my observations on the games, where Tolwyn seems more than a little disagreeable.
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The Tolwyn of the novels isn't anything unique -- he's written as the more complex character seen in Wing Commander 2 and its addons. There was no love lost between pre-FMV Tolwyn and Blair... but Tolwyn was also a great strategist who'd earned the respect of the Concordia's crew. In WC3 and WC4 he was the generic evil science fiction admiral, enforcing the strange old stereotype that anyone who makes flag rank is either incompetant, evil or both.
 
It could be that his conflict with Blair was due to Blairs relationship with Angel (Fraternisation between ranks and also between senior officers)or Blairs apparent displeasure with Angels assignment to covert ops.

Side Note, where was Blair assigned to prior to the False Peace? If he was on the concordia it would seem stange that he would be excluded from Tolwyns actions circa the false peace due to his record and his abilites, perhaps his exclusion from Tolwyns inner circle was a factor in their apparent adversarial nature (But LOAF's expanation sounds more logical)
 
ChrisReid said:
Yeah, but it had gaping holes in the hull, gaps in the shielding and other major flaws. The Paktahns weren't randomly shooting. They were surely going for the defenseless sections that Hobbes tipped them off about.
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I still wouldn't say the circumstances to it's destruction were that similar to the Death Star as Lazy Panda was saying. I just think that having soft spots and weak defenses due to an early deployment is much different than having this one spot where if you hit it the whole thing blows up. Unless maybe he's referring to the second Death Star cause I guess you could argue that its destruction was also the result of it simply not being ready since they flew into the middle of it.

Another thing is when you fly around the Behemoth you can plainly see where it's all patchy looking. Hobbes message to the Kilrathi could've simply been, "Shoot those red patchy areas." One thing I don't remember is did Hobbes (along with providing the technical data about the Behemoth) also provide them with the location of ship and where they were headed?

There were a lot of Kilrathi bombers that I'm sure they could've easily taken out any cap ship. It's not even that hard to do with one bomber. That probably sounds lame though. Cause it's not hard either to take out a single bomber that is trying to destroy your carrier.
 
Shipgate said:
I still wouldn't say the circumstances to it's destruction were that similar to the Death Star as Lazy Panda was saying. I just think that having soft spots and weak defenses due to an early deployment is much different than having this one spot where if you hit it the whole thing blows up. Unless maybe he's referring to the second Death Star cause I guess you could argue that its destruction was also the result of it simply not being ready since they flew into the middle of it.

Another thing is when you fly around the Behemoth you can plainly see where it's all patchy looking. Hobbes message to the Kilrathi could've simply been, "Shoot those red patchy areas." One thing I don't remember is did Hobbes (along with providing the technical data about the Behemoth) also provide them with the location of ship and where they were headed?

There were a lot of Kilrathi bombers that I'm sure they could've easily taken out any cap ship. It's not even that hard to do with one bomber. That probably sounds lame though. Cause it's not hard either to take out a single bomber that is trying to destroy your carrier.
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I believe you misunderstood me, or did I write inaccurately? I was referring to the Temblor Run on Kilrah when I made a comparison with the Death Star Run.
 
Shipgate said:
I still wouldn't say the circumstances to it's destruction were that similar to the Death Star as Lazy Panda was saying. I just think that having soft spots and weak defenses due to an early deployment is much different than having this one spot where if you hit it the whole thing blows up. Unless maybe he's referring to the second Death Star cause I guess you could argue that its destruction was also the result of it simply not being ready since they flew into the middle of it.

Another thing is when you fly around the Behemoth you can plainly see where it's all patchy looking. Hobbes message to the Kilrathi could've simply been, "Shoot those red patchy areas." One thing I don't remember is did Hobbes (along with providing the technical data about the Behemoth) also provide them with the location of ship and where they were headed?

There were a lot of Kilrathi bombers that I'm sure they could've easily taken out any cap ship. It's not even that hard to do with one bomber. That probably sounds lame though. Cause it's not hard either to take out a single bomber that is trying to destroy your carrier.
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I believe you misunderstood me, or did I write inaccurately? I was referring to the Temblor Run on Kilrah when I made a comparison with the Death Star Run.

Torpedoes are simply that powerful, and the Paktahn had six of them and was going for a weak spot. Even the Vesuvius goes down easily sans flash-pack if you use both torps and dumbfires and some gunfire inside the hangar.
 
Hmm, it would seem I did. I guess I thought you were talking about the Behemoth cause you were talking about it recoiling and then you went on to talk about the Death Star and all that. Sorry about that. I guess if only Luke had a cloaking device then he could've easily lined up his shot first.
 
Shipgate said:
I still wouldn't say the circumstances to it's destruction were that similar to the Death Star as Lazy Panda was saying. I just think that having soft spots and weak defenses due to an early deployment is much different than having this one spot where if you hit it the whole thing blows up. Unless maybe he's referring to the second Death Star cause I guess you could argue that its destruction was also the result of it simply not being ready since they flew into the middle of it.
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He wasn't talking about the Behemoth at all

Shipgate said:
Another thing is when you fly around the Behemoth you can plainly see where it's all patchy looking. Hobbes message to the Kilrathi could've simply been, "Shoot those red patchy areas." One thing I don't remember is did Hobbes (along with providing the technical data about the Behemoth) also provide them with the location of ship and where they were headed?
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Are you actually suggesting that he sent detail specs of a Confed superweapon and might've forgotten to mention where it was and what it was for?

Shipgate said:
There were a lot of Kilrathi bombers that I'm sure they could've easily taken out any cap ship. It's not even that hard to do with one bomber. That probably sounds lame though. Cause it's not hard either to take out a single bomber that is trying to destroy your carrier.
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Yeah, that's lame. The point is that there was no chance to interdict the bombers because they zeroed right in immediately on the weakest point en masse.
 
It could be that his conflict with Blair was due to Blairs relationship with Angel (Fraternisation between ranks and also between senior officers)or Blairs apparent displeasure with Angels assignment to covert ops.
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Tolwyn and Blair's conflict runs pretty deep. Tolwyn considered Blair somewhat of a protege early in his career - he felt betrayed when Blair refused to accept a medal from him following the Dolos campaign.

Side Note, where was Blair assigned to prior to the False Peace? If he was on the concordia it would seem stange that he would be excluded from Tolwyns actions circa the false peace due to his record and his abilites, perhaps his exclusion from Tolwyns inner circle was a factor in their apparent adversarial nature (But LOAF's expanation sounds more logical)
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Blair was the Concordia's Wing Commander.

When Wing Commander III opens Tolwyn and Blair have been 'friendly' for several years following Blair's exhonoration. The 'new' rift in Wing Commander III is opened by the actual conversation you see at Torgo in the intro.

Torpedoes are simply that powerful, and the Paktahn had six of them and was going for a weak spot. Even the Vesuvius goes down easily sans flash-pack if you use both torps and dumbfires and some gunfire inside the hangar.
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Though it's worth noting that the Behemoth is significantly differemt from the Vesuvius -- it's many times larger and it doesn't have the fuel and munitions stores and whatnot found onboard a carrier.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
When Wing Commander III opens Tolwyn and Blair have been 'friendly' for several years following Blair's exhonoration. The 'new' rift in Wing Commander III is opened by the actual conversation you see at Torgo in the intro.
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And this "new rift" is because Blair doesn't want the assignment to the Victory? Or because of the discussion about Angel?
 
Blair is resentful of Tolwyn and thinks he's being punished - Blair wanted the Wing Commander slot on the Bradshaw and instead wound up on a second string light carrier...

In reality Tolwyn was rewarding Blair - Tolwyn is assigning veterans to the Victory because he plans to use it for his war ending Behemoth campaign.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
Blair is resentful of Tolwyn and thinks he's being punished - Blair wanted the Wing Commander slot on the Bradshaw and instead wound up on a second string light carrier...

In reality Tolwyn was rewarding Blair - Tolwyn is assigning veterans to the Victory because he plans to use it for his war ending Behemoth campaign.
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Wouldn't a more modern/bigger carrier or such be more suitable for an "ultimate escort" job?
 
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