Seether and Blair

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On the "Behind the Screens" reel on the CD that came with the stragey guide, there was a shot of Tom Wilson (Maniac) talking to Jason Bernard (Eisen) where Tom goes: "...And all the sudden, Mark goes...::makes lightsaber sounds and swings a saber around::...and I'm like, 'Mark! Snap out of it!'" :D
 
Blair: I've seen that before!
Hawk: SO have I. When I first signed up with Confeds there was a rookie pilot on my ship.....

NOT at the academy...
maybe if you go for the book..haven't looked up THAT quote...but that messes up everything anyway.

According to the GAME Seether WAS already pilot during the war.

But anyway..I don't understand the question. How could Tolwyn have used Seether for ending the war? He was only one man. A test. How the GE program would work. One man couldn't end the war. If you go for the Temblor Bomb run, then thats a different thing. Tolwyn didn't have to do anything with that. Actually he wasn't even effectivly in command at that time cause he had many people to explain how he could lose the Behemoth. Even if he wanted he couldn't transfer Seether for that mission, that was Paladin's project..not his.
 
Confed fighter training takes place off of a platform or light carrier of some sort at some point in the training. Hawk taught at the Academy while waiting for a squadron to open up. Put two and two together...

'Sides Seether doesnt look nearly as old as Hawk...
 
Hehe..I know what I have in the back of my head..just looked it up again.
No matter for what source you go..seether WAS in the war.
Here's the novel quote:

"I went to flight school with a guy who was working on that," Hawk said excitedly. "He had all the theoretical work done, and was practicing it in the simulator. He finally perfected it, just before WE graduated." He furrowed his brow. "He got pulled right after that. The word was that he'd been booted out for performing dangerous and unauthorized maneuvers. I remember I didn't buy that......"

And since its obvious that Hawk WAS in the war (He flew with Iceman, and Iceman died DURING the war) so must have been Seether. Not in normal Space Force according to the novel but it covert ops or what do I know. But he definately graduated during the war.
 
Well, Seether could've graduated as the war ended, kind of like Catscratch except...before...Catscratch...

Er, does that make sense?
 
Read what I said..in the novel Hawk says that he graduated TOGETHER with Seether.
Hawk was definately in the war, so Seether also has to be.
And btw..WC4 takes place in early 2671 as far as I know (One pilot says that the war is around 1 year over in WC4Novel).
If Seether had graduated (being usually around 21-23) in late 2669 when the war was over already then he would be only 25 or so in WC4. I'd say Seether looks like everything but not like 25.
And anyway..he graduated with Hawk according to the novel. hawk wasn't his Flight Instructor but his class mate.
 
The problem is that Seether's history is rather confusing... Hawk clearly enlisted in 2655 (and was assigned to Tiger's Claw), and then attended OCS in '56 -- so was Seether onboard the Tiger's Claw? Or was he wherever Hawk did whatever the OCS equivalent of a midshipman's cruise was? I suppose the latter makes more sense... but it still seems very odd, given that The Project itself started in '53.
 
To answer these question we need to know how the Project created it's GEs, especially for the early cases. If Seether "graduated" two years after he was created, then he must of been born an adult, which doesn't make sense unless the egineering process allowed it.
 
Seether was probably given a genetic overhaul, seeing as how Blair was a template for many of the Black Lance...there were probably many such templates.

Seether graduating in '55 allows for him to be snapped up by the rather new Project; not surprising, since I'd be looking for pilots who weren't noteworthy (in other words, pilots fresh out of the Academy) but those who displayed a good amoutn of skill. Why Blair wasn't inducted into the Project is anyone's guess...perhaps he was only made a template after the destruction of the Tiger's Claw.
 
Its not 100% sure that Hawk served aboard the Tiger's Claw. He could have flown with Iceman from the Austin, since Iceman was one of the pilots who survived that incident. Of course there's very little time before Iceman died after that, since Blair had to bring him back BEFORE he was sent to ISS, which was only a few weeks after.
(Blair was grounded during that time, but I think he could have been allowed to fly a special mission under escort to search for Iceman. After all he was still the best pilot aboard, and as long as they could make sure he couldn't escape they'd definately allow him to bring Ice back if he could)
But as far as I know the surviving TClaw pilots all served aboard the Austin at that time. Angel was transfered there as Wing Commander anyway. So it isn't a MUST that Seether served aboard the Claw. Could be he served with Jazz (another nuts guy ;) ) aboard the Austin under command of Angel and meet Hawk there. The book quote doesn't talk about meeting them aboard a ship at all, but just graduating together..I think we should go for the game thing here, since WC4Novel is full of faults anyway.

CU
PrinceThrakhath
 
All the surviving pilots coldnt have served on the Austin because there weere only 2 to 4 squads on board, much less than the Claw which had about 10
 
Well...as far as I know there were only a few pilots who survived. But I didn't mean it that way. I meant that they flew from the Austin for the short time before they could be transfered to other ships. Thats what I meant. Of course not all of them served aboard the Austin permanently. :)

CU
 
Though I still completely disagree with Prince's views on the whole Seether-in-the-war ideal, I do think he makes several intelligent points...and I love his quote! :D
 
You misunderstand -- I know Hawk didn't *fly* off the Tiger's Claw... but we're absolutely 100% sure that the Tiger's Claw was his first assignment when he enlisted, as a tech.

Austin has only one squadron -- we know that a few Tiger's Claw pilots were assigned there... but we know others weren't (Hunter, for instance). (And, of course, veterans of the Austin got assigned to the Concordia in '56...).
 
I didn't missunderstand...I meant his flying career when I said "served". I know he was originally communications tech crewman. But thats not important anyway because that was BEFORE his academy time. I was more interested now in his time as a pilot cause he mentions Seether in that way. If you let the book and the academy mate quote away and just take his quote from the game, talking about "the time I first signed up with Confed" THEN that could mean he meant his time on the Claw cause that was really his first assignment. That would mean Seether flew aboard the Claw. But that would be before Blair joined them since Hawk joined the Academy around the time when Blair and Maniac graduated it. And about the same time (according to Hawk in the game) Seether got transfered away. So that explains why Maniac and Blair didn't know him. The other veterans would have known him probably, but since nobody of them (except Paladin) is really alive anymore during WC4...
And to your comment about the surviving pilots: again..I didn't mean that they were PERMANENTLY assigned there. I just meant that they all were aboard the Austin short after the destuction. Some of them, like Angel, were permanently assigned there, some not. Later assignments to the Concordia have nothing to do with this now anyway.

If I take the facts now all together then Hawk can have met Seether either before 2652 aboard the Claw being a comm tech(he must have enrolled the Space Force Academy around that time to graduate soon enough to have a chance to still fly with Iceman before he died) or during his Academy time (Wc4 book quote) or AFTER his academy time as a pilot aboard the Claw or Austin.
I did read False Colors and WC4 novel only once completely so I don't really remember the exact date Tolwyn gave away for the beginning of the project and the GE program, but I think such a genetical stuff would enable them to let Seether grow fast enough if it really startet already in '53.
But from all the facts he MUST have been in the war around that time. Hawk says that in the game AND the book.

CU
PrinceThrakhath
 
So you *do* see my point -- Hawk's quote from the WCIV game: I refer back to Hawk's quote from Wing Commander IV: "Years ago, when I first signed on with Confed, there was a rookie pilot on my ship. He's the only man I've ever seen who could do that trick." This is why I bring up the Tiger's Claw... since the Tiger's Claw was Hawk's first assignment. I would definately agree that this is purely academic, since the WCIV novel specifies where they met...

Still, you're confused as to the training situation -- Hawk didn't attend the Academy's four year program, he went through OCS... that's what enlisted men who become officers do. According to the WCIV novel knew Seether from Flight School. (Officers planning on being pilots attend flight school after the Academy or college or OCS).

Further, he did this in 2656... since he signed on with Confed in '55 and still had to fly with Iceman (presumably off the Austin).

As for the surviving pilots... you said that "... they flew from the Austin for the short time before they could be transfered to other ships." -- which would imply that they were actually asigned there... we don't know that this is the case at all. They simply landed their after the destruction of the 'Claw -- the reference to Concordia was to further imply that they were quickly assigned elsewhere.

As for Tolwyn's quote about GE -- he'd said that it'd been going on for twenty years circa WC4, which would be 2653.
 
Well, I think a lot of this confusion could be cleared away if we assume that people don't always say exactly what they mean. Take, for example, that Tolwyn quote. He says 20 years ago... but generally, when people provide such a round number, it means they're rounding it off. We don't consider such details important, so we don't bother specifying, for example, that the Black Lance was started, saaay, eighteen years, three months and two days ago at 0500 London time :).
The same with the Hawk quote. 'When I first signed on with Confed' doesn't have to mean what it immediately sounds like. People usually skim over the unimportant stuff (in this case, the circumstances of the meeting) to get to the important stuff (Seether). A year or two won't make a difference in this case, so he doesn't need to specify that it was at the OCS, or at the 'Claw, or wherever - just that it was at the start of his career.
Of course, this is all 'sterile conjecture', but taken together with the WC4 book, I think it pretty much clears the situation up :).
 
LOAF, this "after the academy -> flight school" stuff is from real life. You can't just say thats the same in WC. In the WC1&2 guide we hear nothing about a flight school and in WC Academy its the same. Maybe the Fleet has a flight school but since from what I know all Space Force officers become pilots and from what we see in WC Academy there is no Space Force Flight School. No don't go for Hawks quote. That novel can't be really taken as providing facts anyway. And also don't repeat what you always claimed, that we see the Flight School in WCAcademy. That is no Flight School. Its often enough said in the series that is was the Academy. For that other shorter Academy thing for already enlisted men, maybe thats right, I don't know how thats handeled in US. I don't see a reason why enlisted men shouldn't go through the academy for becoming officers, but ok. So lets say its still around 2 years before 2656, then its still very close to say Blair could have met Seether. He also never met Hawk before, he just knew his name in WC.

But all these facts just repeat what I said. Hawk met Seether short after being enlisted, no matter if short after means one day or 2 years. All this originally was about is that what you said is just wrong.
- Seether WAS in the war, you said he graduated AFTER.
- Hawk wasn't his flight school teacher, but either his
classmate or just met him in his young years (that
depends on how much you take the novel for real)

Thats all I wanted to say. You were just wrong with what you first said.

CU
PrinceThrakhath
 
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