Ronald Reagan dead at 93

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The man had his definitely pluses - but I don't think it went that far.
 
saved the world.
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Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time...*shrug*

Anyway, Reagan was a president, yes, a politician, yes, but Reagan was a MAN too...would some of you like it if I brought a big picture board to your funeral that covered the worst moments of your life?

On another forum I go to, three members have been banned and I don't know how many topics deleted...so I guess things are still pretty tame over here. It's been a rough time for some people.
 
I said "possibly". It's certain that he bankrupted the Russians and put an end to the cold war, which could have turned hot at any time.
 
Maj.Striker said:
As rare as this happens, I agree with Psych, good post, Frosty. I still get irked at morons who proclaim that tax cuts for the rich is bad etc. I still say there should be a flat tax percentage for everyone. 10% is the same percentage as anyone. If I earn $25,000 then I'll pay 2500 in taxes...if you earn $25,000,000, you'll pay $2.5 million it's the same frigging thing! People are like, Oh but they're rich, they can afford it. SCREW YOU! They earned that money, they shouldn't have to pay more just because they're rich...that's like some sort of messed up prejudice. Like saying if your chinese you should pay 25%...some people are permanently handicapped in the head.
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Amen to Major, Frosty, and Psych.

The last statistic I heard on PRN, about 6 months ago, was that the wealthiest 1% of Americans pay about 49% of our taxes. And I'll use the word "fair" here because that is what I hear most often: "It's only fair because they have more money so thay can afford it. They have more to lose so it is only "fair" that they should pay more. They must have "unfairly" screwed someone to get it. They should pay their "fair" share, blah, blah, blah."

Capitalism by its very nature isn't fair, it is cold and dispassionate: Each according to his abilities. The opposite, each according to his needs, is a philosophy embodied by Communism, by Socialism in the main, and other government/economic systems that stand more or less diametrically opposed to the Democracy/Capitalism mix. No, our system isn't purely Capitalistic by definition, but it is very close. I prefer it to the alternatives.

An Enron is easy to single out because of a relatively few corrupt corporate suits. What they did was unquestionably wrong and they should be punished accordingly. But, I'd venture a guess here and say it is the exception rather than the rule. Sounds a little like speculative cattle futures and questionable land deals, if you get my drift.....

Nonetheless, the affluent minority make for an easy and convenient scapegoat, only in this instance the "battle lines" are drawn around economics rather than ethnicity, religion, national origin, or skin tone. Play on one of the most basic of human emotions- greed- and you've got a winner. Target 2.8 million Americans, and it's OK because, "I'm jealous of something they've got that I don't have." Nevermind that they worked for it, earned it, or possibly, God forbid, inherrited it. To paraphrase Maj. Striker, would said behavior be tolerated if the object of such animosity was directed at Hispanics, Homosexuals, or women? I think not.

The idea behind redistribution of wealth is nothing more than a facade, part of an "invisible" economy that exists in this country, forwarded by those who would rather have us dependant upon the government than see us self reliant. It keeps those who foster such thinking entrenched in power. Thank FDR's "New Deal" and Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society." The tax code in our country, even as it exists today, punishes success and discourages innovation. I would choose to keep more of the money that I earn instead of having some bureaucrat take it from me, keep himself in power in the process, and give away what's left in a twisted form of retribution for my being more successful than my neighbor.
 
Quarto said:
This guy is absolutely right, and you know it.
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"And you know it! SO THERE!!!" Worst closing statement ever. Moving along to the actual point...

While the basic concept you're selling here (question authority = good) may be entirely acceptable in many situations, we have to avoid turning it into some sort of religious mantra. When we reach a point where the participants in our socieity's political discourse revere any sort of questioning of (read: negative remarks directed toward) X political figure/organization/whatever as some sort of sacred ritual which by its very nature is patriotic, we run into trouble. And we have.

We now live in an age where I could theorize on the front page of the New York Times that George W. Bush likes to fuck puppies, and then immediately dash to safety behind the catch-all shield of patriotism. "It's my duty to raise these questions!!"

Ronald Reagan, as a man, was about as patriotic as they come, and over the course of his life was scrutinized and vindicated many times. At this point, such a ritual is entirely unecessary, because the man's presidency is in the past, and his effectiveness as a leader has been proven by history. Such "patriotism" is masturbatory now. And you know it.
 
This thread makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Not only did he save the world, but he saved a nation. The 1970's weren't exactly a rosy time in American history - Nam, Nixon's impeachment, oil crises, DISCO - and the American people hadn't really had a president to look up to since JFK (although I'm inclined to say Truman). It wasn't just his policies, it's how Reagan made the American people feel about themselves. He believed in them, and inspired them to do great things. I'll repeat what Death said earlier in the thread: he was one of my heroes growing up, and his legacy continues to inspire me.
 
Frosty said:
And that time moon-people ate my dog...
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And those evil Imperialistic Americans were blowing up my yellow-skinned relatives back in 'Nam!!!!!
 
Frosty said:
"And you know it! SO THERE!!!" Worst closing statement ever. Moving along to the actual point...
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To be fair, it's no worse an argument than "shut the fuck up" :). In any case, the reason I said it was because, from what little I know of psych, I believed that he simply didn't not think his statement through enough, and that if he did think about it, he would agree. As it turns out, this wasn't quite the case - it's not that he didn't think through what he said, but rather than he wasn't entirely serious when he said it... which doesn't change the fact that, just like I thought, he did indeed "know it" :p.

While the basic concept you're selling here (question authority = good) may be entirely acceptable in many situations, we have to avoid turning it into some sort of religious mantra.
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Sure, I agree - the only reason I objected to what psych said is because I believe the two extremes (never question authority / always obsessively question authority) are pretty much equally dangerous.

Oh, and about Ronald Reagan - while I disagreed with this one thing (entirely unrelated to Reagan) that psych said, I don't disagree with either of you when it comes to your opinion about Reagan.
 
New idea: let's all agree to drop the politics and bullshit in this thread and get back on topic.

Reagan was, in the final equation, a good man. Let us remember that, and remember that everyone stumbles. Yes, a number of people don't like his actions in office, including myself. That's been pointed out God-knows-how-many-times, and frankly, i don't think we need another repeat of that debate.

Let's all agree, for the sake of the community, to let this one lie until we can pursue it with cooler heads, all right? Tensions are probably running just a bit high with everything that's going on right now, so let's just take a breather.

This is just a suggestion that I think might help.

Apparently, unlike one of my fellow Democrats, I can say this: May Reagan rest in peace.
 
Quarto said:
To be fair, it's no worse an argument than "shut the fuck up" :).
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Well if you want to get right down to it, I'd style that more as an ultimatum. And those don't have to be all that great, just punchy.
Moonsword said:
New idea: let's all agree to drop the politics and bullshit in this thread and get back on topic.
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I like fighting.
 
psych said:
And those evil Imperialistic Americans were blowing up my yellow-skinned relatives back in 'Nam!!!!!
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Stupid ... B-52 ... killed my ... Vietnamese ... friends ...
 
Reagan was great, as an independant voter I'd have to say, I'd rather have him than Bush. He was the most human and honest (though not completely) president we have ever had as far as his deficit alot of that had to do with government trying to sink his presidency not one president is the sole owner of the budget and it's only 2.8 trillion IIRC my text books told me that the democratic house did alot of wasteful spending so while the debt was bad what it helped pay off was mutually assured destruction as well as collapse the soviet union 30 years faster
 
Sorry for the double post,

When we talk about Reagan, let us remember the man he was, and that in his daily life, he lived a life of strong conviction and moral obligation to give people freedom. He also believed that to deny people that right to be free was evil, and sought to demonstrate, that if you apply yourself, you can achieve anything.

Ronald Reagan: Some people called my zero tolerence nuculear arms policy simple, I like to call it 'Disarmingly' simple.
 
well I was 10 when he left office, so I don't really remember what happened during that time. But, many other Presidents have done stupid things while in office, too. Let's not forget what good ol' Clinton did. Anyway, the point is no one is perfect. While Reagon at least stood his ground on many things, it probably wasn't the best tactic. But if he tells lies to cover his ass, that won't really sit well with anyone, would it. Many other presidents were better than Reagon and there are certainly some that were and are worse.

Every one here can remember Reagon how ever they want. That's up to them.

Oh yeah he was also the oldest man ever elected President.
 
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